Wrong target !

Discussion in 'UKAHFT Official Forum' started by skires, May 25, 2009.

  1. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    I can see why a shot has to count when a gun is discharged. The cheats could claim that they had forgot to load a pellet on a miss or say that they were'nt ready to fire on a miss etc ...

    ... but wrong targets ?

    Yesterday I was shooting a HFT course. Just a few targets to go and I'm on for a 56 which would have been a PB with the old springer. I get to the next peg ... a 30 yarder set on a bank at the back of a wooded area. It's a 45mm kill and it's prone so it's basically a gimme. The only thing to get in the eyeline is a tall tree who's trunk goes diagonally across the target and the edge of the trunk is in line with edge of the kill zone ... but that should be no problem.

    As I always do, I check the string. I pull the string and the string runs for about 25 yards at ground level into the undergrowth ... then reappears and goes upwards behind the tree and to the target.

    So prone ... no wind to worry about ... aim slightly low ... pull trigger ... Kerrrplunk ... and down it goes for a 2.

    My partner who is marking my card ( and he'd set the course ) says " Ooooh unlucky "

    I'm thinking he's having a laugh when I hear from a couple of lanes down .... " Who's just shot my bluddy target ? "

    I claim that I've shot the right target ... but after a very very very close look ... the real target for this lane can just about be made out hidden in the shadows at ground level. Same distance ... same size kill .. so again , pretty much a gimme. As the string from my target went into the undergrowth the string from the other target lay over the top of it so as you tugged on my string the other string lifted up and rattled the wrong target which was lit with sunshine ... the real target being difficult to see in the shadows. It was a visual effect that Spielberg would have been proud of.

    I score a zero.

    A few minutes later a well known HFT shooter who is quite capable of winning a national shoot does exactly the same and so did other people that shot the course.

    I clear the rest of the course and finish on 54. The guy I've just mentioned ends up on 57 and his 59 would have probably won it.

    I'm not worried about my score ... it was just a club shoot.

    I can sort of see that in competition, if wrong target shots were allowed to be shot again... a cheat might plate the real target and claim " Ooops ... I shot the wrong target ... I'd best take that shot again " ... or deliberately shoot at a close by wrong target so that they can get a judgement on distance and wind and then shoot at the real target with an advantage ...

    ... but I think that most of the wrong target shots will be taken by lesser/fun shooters ... maybe even youngsters who have just shot the wrong one in innocence. Also ... a fair percentage of them will be shot in innocence as above.

    Are all the targets on the nationals numbered ( at the target ) to match the peg ? ( this obviously helps )

    Could a system like the dodgy kneelers ( 3 strikes and you're out ) be used?

    In reality a shooter is unlikely to shoot more than the odd wrong target over a series ... so if they shoot a wrong target on a course they call a marshall who marks the card with 'WT' and they get to shoot it again. You are allowed just one 'WT' per course and just two over a series. If you break this then there are consequences. IE any additional 'WT' per course is a zero and if three in a series then the 3rd 'WT' and all following that season are zero.

    This gives the cheats 2 shots in a season but they couldn't try it on regularly to gain an advantage.

    It also gives youngsters or newcomers to the sport or those who are completely innocent a chance to get a better score and not be disheartened because they have a zero for innocently knocking down the wrong target.

    This of course will not in any way affect the p!ss taking when someone shoots the wrong target.

    Boz
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  2. Sparky

    Sparky Ich dien Staff Member

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    Not sure why you think someone who is unlucky enough to shoot the wrong target should be punished more than the 0 they will get???? And nobody is allowed to take another shot anyway, wrong target or not.

    Its not as if they are cheating as if they kill the target and then go to reset it won't go so they get a 0, and if they dink the target, how is anyone going to know they shot the wrong target and i don't know anyone who would willing take a chance on shooting the wrong target.

    Pete
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  3. raygun

    raygun Non member

    "Are all the targets on the nationals numbered ( at the target ) to match the peg ? ( this obviously helps )"

    Part of the National course setting requirements.

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  4. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Not punished more Pete. It's explained in 1st post.

    Can someone please explain why you get a zero and don't get to shoot the proper target to test your skill on all the targets on the course. Please don't answer with ... cos it's the rules ... is there a real reason why wrong target shots are not just laughed at but then the shooter gets to shoot the real target?

    Boz
     
  5. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Ray

    Boz
     
  6. superstarjamieev2mk2

    superstarjamieev2mk2 New Member

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    how about this for an idea, make sure there are no overlapping strings:p:p:p
     
  7. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    It's a fine idea.

    Maybe the national venues are selected with that criteria but it's not practical for some clubs that have limited space. Maybe this topic is then more relevant for club HFT shoots where strings do cross but most clubs take their rulings from UKAHFT.

    30 targets is a small amount of shots anyway ... so when a shooter gets to shoot one less and gets a zero on a target and doesn't actually get to shoot that target for an innocent mistake I wondered if there was a sensible legitimate reason. It's not going to slow down the shoot because they will be a very rare thing anyway.

    Boz
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  8. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Boz we've all done it, I did last week! Numbers at the target help stop it but at the end of the day if you're stupid enough to shoot the wrong target you deserve a zero and all the piss taking you get! There's so many ways of making sure you hit the right one that theres no need, it's a lesson learnt the hard way!:D

    Ryan
     
  9. Sparky

    Sparky Ich dien Staff Member

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    Thought this might be obvious too be honest and thought its a no brainer, but here you go, you more or less answered it yourself by saying people could shoot the wrong target on purspose to get an idea of wind etc as if it was the case you could shoot the target again then that would be open to abuse.


    Oh and also its the rules;)

    Pete
     
  10. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    :D:D:D

    That takes me back to my first post Pete ... Cheats could do that ( that's why I said it in the first post )... but again the innocent will suffer because the odd cheating tw*t will find a way to take advantage. That's why I proposed the 3 strikes and you are out like the kneeling position.

    To repeat ...

    Could a system like the dodgy kneelers ( 3 strikes and you're out ) be used?

    In reality a shooter is unlikely to shoot more than the odd wrong target over a series ... so if they shoot a wrong target on a course they call a marshall who marks the card with 'WT' and they get to shoot it again. You are allowed just one 'WT' per course and just two over a series. If you break this then there are consequences. IE any additional 'WT' per course is a zero and if three in a series then the 3rd 'WT' and all following ones that season are zero.

    This gives the cheats 2 shots in a season but they couldn't try it on regularly to gain an advantage.

    It also gives youngsters or newcomers to the sport or those who are completely innocent a chance to get a better score and not be disheartened because they have a zero for innocently knocking down the wrong target.


    So if a cheat wanted to try and take advantage he/she could do it once on two different shoots ... acquiring them 2 extra points in an entire season .... If they tried to do it repeatedly they would fall foul of the 3 strikes rule and would then just score zeros ... whilst the innocent would get to shoot ALL the targets on the course and not be penalised because of strict rules to deter cheats.

    Just like the kneeling rule.

    Boz
     
  11. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Or do nothing and take the piss out of stupid people. Thats what HFT is all about.:)

    Ryan
     
  12. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Yeah fook it ....

    B:DZ
     
  13. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    So if we were to follow your suggestion we could miss the hardest target on the course then claim to have shot at the wrong target, then taking the original impact point into account we could shoot it again. Not only can a shooter do this once in a season, he can do it twice ?

    Have you any idea what Chaos it would cause to the series if some of the top shots started doing this, there would be no point in competing at all. Over the last three years some of the top placings have been separated by much less than one target.

    The rules are there for a reason, they are there to allow everyone to shoot on a level playing, we have rules that are as fair as possible, we apply the same rules whether it's your first shoot or you are one of the top shots.

    We've all shot the wrong target at some point which is why at the nationals all lanes have a number at the peg & the target, I try & make sure I always check the number of the target I'm about to shoot, I also try to spot which target my partners are shooting at & let them know before they shoot if they appear to be aiming at the wrong one.
     
  14. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Good points with just a hint of PMT Scoobs ...:D

    I see what you are saying about the narrow margin between the top shots fella ...

    ... but the same could be said of the kneeling rule ... A top shot could be taking a really difficult kneeler ... it could be the difference between a win or second ... so he thinks " I'll just take a warning on this thank you very much and make sure I get the win by shooting in a 'better' but slightly dodgy position". Similarly they can do that twice a season.

    I'm sure the top boys don't need to and wouldn't do this as they take as much pride in their own performance as winning ... but the same applies to the scenario that you explained.

    I do the same as you and if I see a partner shooting at the wrong target I tell them.

    Boz
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  15. Sparky

    Sparky Ich dien Staff Member

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    Shooting the wrong target and kneeling position are two seperate issues though, with what you are saying imagine if it was in other sports, Oh i didn't mean to pot another red i was going for the black, i dind't mean to kick the ball then as i was offside so can i shoot again and so on.

    Show me another shooting sport or any other sport that allows you to have another go at something you hit wrong.

    Pete
     
  16. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    OK Bozzer I'll put it another way then:rolleyes:

    We aren't changing the rule so live with it.... is that PMT enough for you:D
     
  17. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Not that I'm likelt to be in contention for a series win, but I find the illeagal kneeling positions much more uncomfortable than my regular position. It's unlikely that anyone will practice illeagal kneelers so I don't think I'm alone on that front.:)

    If that scenario did happen I'm sure the piss taking would be along the lines of - You only won that because of your dodgey kneelers! Mind you Ross would get that anyway!:D:D:p

    Ryan
     
  18. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm

    I know in the 2003 World Wife Swapping Championships .... Sven Ollson, of Sweden, potted the brown instead of the pink and was awarded a free second go because his partner was a bit of a big engine and amongst all the folds he'd become very confused.

    Will that example do Pete?

    Boz
     
  19. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    LOL

    Send me your addy Scoobs and I'll pop some B6 in the post.

    It's fair enough buddy. I understand that no matter what you do some one would try and take advantage and I know the rules are there to be fair as possible for everyone ... just a spot of Bank Holiday chat with a few beers in me.

    B:DZ
     
  20. Sparky

    Sparky Ich dien Staff Member

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    Too much time on your hands mate:cool:

    Pete
     

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