Worlds

Discussion in 'WHFTA Official forum' started by Sparky, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. Sparky

    Sparky Ich dien Staff Member

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    First of all would like to congratulate Pete on his win and to all the other winners.

    To all the helpers

    Ian Bainbridge
    Cleve
    Ryan Charlton
    Chris Cundey
    Mark Crossland


    Pete Dutton
    Derick Stone
    Steve Gillies
    Guy Gillies
    Dave Lillywhite


    Jane Sparkes
    Tracey Stone
    Elaine Lillywhite

    To all the marshals who did more than there fair share and anyone else who helped out in any way, we appreciate all the help.

    Right now onto the weekend, yes there was some issues with the wood course with some lanes, but with some peoples attitudes I don t think its fair on the course setters who gave up 2 days of their time to set up to get the stick they did, I know a lot wasn t happy but there are plenty who enjoyed both days.
    Anyone who has ever set anything up will understand that you can never please everyone.

    And too be honest its not worth the **** you get and Myself and Pete made a rash decision on the weekend and Jane told us to think about it after we calmed down, but the way we feel at the moment we are not even sure the Worlds will take place next year, and before anyone thinks it this is a “please feel sorry for us†bullshit post believe me its not.


    Pete
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  2. Bombhead

    Bombhead New Member

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    Pete,

    I and many people I spoke to at the weekend had a fantastic weekend and recognise all the hard work and dedication. Sadly I can understand the way you are feeling. It's not even worth me ranting about a minority of folk who would never be happy.

    I would like to reiterate my thanks to you and all of the others who have given so much to the sport and made it what it is today. Without you and all the others the minority wouldn't have anything to complain about.

    Tony
     
  3. A.C.

    A.C. Non member

    As discussed earlier Pete, I'm not sure making a decision yet is the right one either yes or no. As the gentleman above mentioned, pretty much everybody enjoyed their weekend and for various reasons, which don't need to be debated any longer the shooting side attracted some criticism. Depending on what side you were/are on it was right/wrong in varying degrees.
    There is an awful lot that goes into making any event happen, as many people already know, hosting something on the scale of the weekend must be very difficult.
    For the organising body of any event, if things aren't 100% perfect there will be people with grievances, sometimes very valid grievances, sometimes not so much. As I said one day to you, before we actually met, try not to take this criticism as a negative thing, just take it as feedback, something that enables UKAHFT/WHFTA to grow stronger with.
    Nothing is perfect but as long as we strive to improve and admit a problem openly, should there be one, nobody could complain.
    The thing which makes yourself and Pete very viable targets are your undoubted love and involvement in the sport, both of you put a lot of time and effort into the running of each and every UKAHFT (or the like) event. Should things go wrong you both become legitimate targets, vested interest would be my guess to some of the complaints etc, as the saying goes "The buck stops here".
    I'm not saying things are perfect, we have discussed often about things evolving, last year we had the Bisley event, WE (me and you not the colloquial we) clashed over it and to your credit things changed and changed very swiftly. It's an evolving sport, there are some brilliant people involved in it, maybe a couple of people, people who you know to be straight with their opinions, Dave Hatfield, Dave Benyon and the like have experience and valid no nonsense opinions, call a spade a spade type of people. I KNOW you love the sport, I KNOW you love the banter, the fun, the camaraderie and at the end of it the competition, naturally the criticism hits you (and Pete) hard, it's understandable, I'd be ticked off myself.
    I say this as a friend Pete, don't throw the towel in, learn from the event, take the good and bad out of it and improve it where you can.
    Regards Andrew.

    P.S I know I promised never to rant on the forum so I kept it short. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2011
  4. merlot

    merlot Member

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    to both petes the courses you put on were both superb. some people you will never please. had a great time. please keep it going many thank for all your hard work and superb shooting mr dutton:D
     
  5. lidds1980

    lidds1980 New Member

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    Myself and all the people I spoke to also had an amazing weekend. It would be a grave loss for the sport if the few people with bad attitudes ruined it for the rest of us.

    From reading other posts on here many people seem to think that it was the best worlds ever.

    Thanks to Pete and all the other organisers for a great weekend.
     
  6. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    I'm not really sure what UKAHFT has got to do with this weekends event ????


    I'd just like to point out that Dave Hatfiled or Dave Benyon weren't the people Pete was refering to
     
  7. A.C.

    A.C. Non member

    Sorry Pete I was under the impression UKAHFT ran this event, based on your reply it didn't for which I apologise.
    No I know they weren't, I suggested trying to spread the burden by including people such as Dave Banyon or Hatfield rather than have everything loaded onto yours and Petes shoulders. It's not a dig Pete, it was suggestion that may allow both yourself and Pete a little more time. In saying that maybe they would be unhappy to be in the 'firing line' I don't know. You know me Pete, I'm not a negative person I try to be positive in my thoughts so don't look at it in the wrong way, it isn't meant to be.
    Regards Andrew
     
  8. JAGXKRS

    JAGXKRS Sparky's Bodyguard

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    To all the whingers STFU or get off your arses and help us set courses/vet courses/marshall, run around after you have all finished shooting setting out the shoot off lanes or gathering the course in and assisting the organisers in any way we can to make the UK's & The World's the comp's they are. Yes there were problems on both courses and I have already spoken to Sparky privately about what I thought was wrong, but does anyone want to bet against them being sorted for next year;) I hope Pete, Pete & Jane do put on the World's for us next year its a cracking weekend and it would be a shame if a few spoilt it for the rest. As said the whingers have a choice, we always need more marshalls. :cool:

    Andy that's not aimed at you by the way but I am highly pissed off with some people's attitude and I'm not known for my diplomacy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2011
  9. A.C.

    A.C. Non member

    Chris, lol I think you just said similar to me, I don't think anybody wants it to be the end of the road, I purposely stayed away from right/wrongs because they've been discussed already. I have tried to show support even though I seem to have got the wrong governing body and also offered some thought on trying to help move forward, nowhere (that I remember) was there a whine or a whinge, the whole thread was positive not negative about the weekend. There is one caveat though Chris and you can call me a whinger if you like, to have a different opinion doesn't make you a whinger, it just means that a person doesn't agree, I do try to see everybody's point of view, when I talk to you we quite often agree but there are possible times where you won't agree with me, if this were to happen, should I call you a whinger? Personally I'd think 'good point Chris and well made', I'd still think you were wrong though.
    Sorry Chris I read everything this morning with Ell and I read all of your post except the last line, hence my edit etc. I still stand by it but again it's just my take on it.
    Take it easy Chris :)
    Regards Andrew
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2011
  10. steveggg

    steveggg Trainee Grumps

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    I'm not an ORGANISER, but i know that the Pete's and Jane have spent days doing just that, over the last few months.All in their own time.
    They have had to decifer/process the applications, sort foreign money transfer/conversion, purchase trophies, plan marshalling, liase with Countryman fairs, find helpers for all tasks, along with trying to get sponsorship. None of which is an easy task.
    As a helper, mainly course building, we had a lot or restrictions placed on us by Kelmarsh Hall, that we complied with, whilst putting out 2 30 shot courses in 2 days.
    No damage was to made to any existing, flower beds, trees in any way, fences and buildings, and no pellets were to go over into the walled garden at the back of the woods course/lane 1-10 Lakes course, or into the lake itself. It was no mean feat meeting these criteria.

    Most of the people that helped/organised are also SHOOTERS, who were there along with ALL others to participate and enjoy their HOBBY. Unfortunatly they weren't allowed to by the minority.
    There were incidents where a marshall was needed, and marshalls were just about to take their shot when they were called for, distracting them from their shot.
    People were approaching us to make complaints, again whilst we were preparing for a shot.
    There were a lot of derogatory comments flying around, both on and off the course, from people, who in my mind, should have known better.
    There was minimal CONSTRUCTIVE feedback.

    I for one, despite the above, would like to see these events continue, and will commit to supporting them any way i can.
     
  11. Kingplinker

    Kingplinker " Horsham HFT champion 2010 "... apparently...

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    Ok so I don't do the UKAHFT shoots and I didn't attend the worlds but I know a lot of shooters and I didn't hear anything too bad about the shoot in fact I heard quite the opposite :confused: . Sad to say that it seems the more you put in - the more crap you get atm .

    I hope the worlds do go ahead next year .

    good luck

    Dave
     
  12. Petervw

    Petervw Member

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    Great course !

    for me both courses were brilliant :cool:

    thanks to all organisers, helpers and shooters for a great Worlds
    hope to see you all next year !

    greets from Belgium
    Peter
     
  13. peadar_911

    peadar_911 Too old to die young.

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    As above post, I thought the VOLUNTEERS did an excellent job. It is the easiest job in the world to criticise the work of others, and it is virtually impossible to please everyone.

    I'd like to thank everybody who gave up their time to make this years comp as good as it was.

    Perhaps next year the fault finders can volunteer their time and show us what the "perfect" HFT course looks like?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Peter

    PS This sport is supposed replicate hunting in the field, it is NOT FT
     
  14. BigBluey

    BigBluey New Member

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    Well personally, i had a great weekend, couldn't see a lot but still shot both days and bloody well enjoyed it.
    I take my hat of to ALL that give there time and effort into giving everyone a chance to shoot these comps, and the behind the scene work is never fully recognised by many, and it should be.
    Courses are difficult to set to cater for all, and you will never please everyone all the time. Both courses last weekend where challanging in there own ways, thats what makes this event so good. Plenty of tricky and unusual shots. If people want straight at target shooting, go down the plinking range.

    To sum it up, A MASSIVE thank you to Pete,Pete and Jane, all the course setters and the marshalls. Oh and if I have forgotten anyone who helped out thank you too, as it is the highlight of my shooting year and I hope it long carries on, because without you all this would never happen

    Simon
     
  15. Photoguy2910

    Photoguy2910 Member

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    Let me start by saying thank you to everyone that put in so much of their time to put on what I think was the best worlds I've been to (I've been to the 3 of them...).

    Now... I don't know what the whinging was about (I haven't gone throught all of the other posts yet), but get a grip. These were the world championships... it's not meant to be easy. The only complaining the group I was in were how did we do that??? although on a couple of targets we did think about finding who put them out and throwing them in the lake, it wasn't because of the course but because WE had made the error.

    Guys, for every whinger there are loads that loved the weekend and in our sport we are always saying, why should the minority rule the majority.

    Thanks again for a great weekend, I really hope it's on again next year.
     
  16. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    Spreading any burden is not really the answer Andrew as we had an excellent team of helpers & a team of good qualified marshals, the problem is being confronted by bad attitude while you are shooting by people who want to change the rules just for them.

    Fair enough the course I shot Sunday afternoon was a shorter but positionally difficult course that some found hard but with three sessions having already shot it including small juniors I'm not (as chief marshal) going to allow one person to rest on a bean bag to take a shot they find difficult, imagine how everyone else would feel having not been allowed to do the same. To then have it suggested that Pete Sparkes, Jane & myself would sweep any complaints under the carpet frankly disgusts me.
     
  17. chrisc

    chrisc Lucky git

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    I really hope that the Worlds carries on as it has for the last 3 years. For the amount of shooters i think the organiational side of it appears to go quite smoothly. I really enjoyed the weekend despite the Reg packing up on the Steyr and had a lot of fun with the Emley lads on our evenings out.:D

    It's nice that there are so many positive posts and i personally helped with course setting and marshalling. The time and effort given by the same group of people each year should be recognised (as it rightly has) as all these people expect in return is the warm, fuzzy feeling of being helpful and part of the UKAHFT/WHFT circuit.

    I can also understand where some of the gripes are coming from as some of the targets were made extremely difficult if you were a Junior or small in stature (;)) but i'm positive this wasn't deliberate. I found both courses good and the fact that neither was cleared means they weren't too easy, mind you, the wind helped a lot with that :D. The main gripes came from the plastic obstructions that appeared on a few pegs in the woods but having set out these courses and knowing the very tight restrictions imposed on the course setters by the groundstaff at Kelmarsh, it's difficult to get any sort of variation of the like that can be found at most UKAHFT shoots.

    I think that as this is the Premier HFT shoot of the year, shooters want to get as high in the rankings as possible so put more pressure on themsleves as a result. This results in gipes about targets that probably wouldn't generate such a reaction.

    As i've been shooting well for the last 6 weeks i was genuinely aiming for a top 5 position.....we all know how that flippin' turned out:D:D;):D:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011
  18. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    As many have said, this weekend was a great success and over 200 people had a great time, However, there was a definite atmosphere at the weekend and it is one that has not been around for a couple of years.

    When I arrived on Saturday for the first session, people were already talking about the woods course and this was before it had even been shot. I have also been told, that there has been back stabbing and bitching all weekend. On Sunday, I must have had 6 or 7 arguments with people and I must admit it spoilt my weekend.

    So may I suggest this, lets just put this behind us and move on. We have Wendover in a few weeks and for me personally I am looking forward to getting back to the UK's. As for whether the WHFTA will continue, I hope it does, I would be very sad to see it go, but for next yea,r would it be possible to shoot in a different part of Kelmarsh, somewhere with less restrictions, somewhere, where Sparky and the boys can put out a course like we had at Treetops?

    Or even go down the eurovision route and let the winning team decide which country the Worlds are going to be held in?

    Well done to the WHFTA
     
  19. NarkyMark

    NarkyMark New Member

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    I am presuming that all the ' people who can t be pleased' with 'bad attitude' who are 'whinging' are referring to the breezeblock targets on the woods course, I have already PM'd Pete and raised my concerns on the grounds that my 10 year old lad had to take a few of them kneeling because he physically could not see the kill of the target, this was IMO slightly unfair, not just on the grounds of him winning, which in all honesty he just isn't good enough yet, like his Dad :), but on the grounds of keeping his spirits up; it s hard enough for a child to realise they don't stand a chance without having it rubbed in.

    I have set A course, yes just the one, to full 2011 UKAHFT spec, this was in a regional competition (North West Winter Freezer) I was worried that the course would not be difficult enough so I started putting a couple of high on your elbow back breakers out, to liven things up a bit (I for one have no issue with this type of target), on the checking of the course the morning of the shoot I was informed that a Junior would/could have issues seeing the targets, I was peed off being told this if the truth be known and thought that the course was made far too easy by the fact they were all lowered & certain obstacles removed, it turned out that it wasn't the case as no one cleared it and the conditions where perfect for the shooters with only a slight breeze. I took from this that the course was technically difficult rather than physically difficult, the course was also enjoyed by FT shooters who could see all targets with ease, this was by no means easy, but I enjoyed the challenge of being able to set an unbeatable course, while accommodating children, people of varying height & physical abilities and also bum shufflers :), the point I am trying to make is that with a bit of thought setting out a challenging course and pleasing each & everyone is achievable (even by a noob like me), this to me is the whole meaning & true spirit of HFT!

    I feel the need has now arisen (as it did for target checkers, removal of plates etc, etc) that a set standard needs to be introduced into the maximum/minimum height a rifle has to be lifted up a peg or shooting support, the sport is evolving and these things need to be addressed; if the height is set to be less than seen at the Worlds then so be it (juniors and shorty s unite :D), if they are set to be the same or even higher then so be it (the same reason why 4 6†Cubans don t enter the high jump :D), it is a sport with an already great set of rules, let s not spoil it by not having this seemingly IMO grey area made black & white once and for all.

    As for derogatory comments and verbal outbursts, well these people should be ashamed as this sort of attitude is not going to better the sport one iota!

    My thoughts and opinions do not take away the fact I still had a great weekend away both with my Wife & Son, meeting likeminded people who were all doing what they love the most and for that I am truly grateful to each and everyone involved!

    ATB

    Mark
     
  20. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    Good post Mark,

    The problem with trying to create a specific limit on how high you come up a peg is its also dependant on many other factors sugh as target height & terrain contours, stock design also comes into it with sporter styles fairing better than Target based stocks with deeper forends that lift the muzzle higher & require the butt to be elevated even more.

    I think realisically it's something we have to pick up during vetting & on this occasion it was probably a bit too high for our younger shooters, I really struggled on it myself & as you son says I'm a big guy :D
     

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