Why it matters!

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by AIRFIX GILLY, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. AIRFIX GILLY

    AIRFIX GILLY WFTA World Champion 2012

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    Now that the banter of the Euro`s weekend has died down I wish to ask a question......
    "why does it matter?"
    Whats this fool on about your all asking. Well my story first and all will appear.
    No names mentioned in this thread except mine and James Osbourne.
    James was my buddy marshal on day one of the euros and was marking my card. I and only I made a mistake and shot a target out of numbered sequence. Quite rightly James pointed this out to me (he didnt have too but he did like the honest guy he is). I cursed, pulled the target up I had just hit and shot at it again happily knocking it down again. But a miss went down on my card as the BFTA rules state for the first shot I made:mad:

    Now I think most of us know this rule??:rolleyes:

    I have since been told from someone I believe and trust that a certain person who was marshalling someone who did the same and shot out of sequence and was told..."it doesn`t matter, carry on".
    Now I dont blame the shooter taking the shot, he wasn`t to blame, just a mistake like I made. My question is aimed at the buddy marshal, and I think you know who you are too! "Why doesnt it matter??":confused:

    What gives YOU the right to shoot a competition and break the rules? Adjust them to suit your own ideas of whats right and just? I`d just like you to come on open forum and explain to me why you think it doesnt matter to abide by the rules and to just break them as you see fit or adjust them to suit your mates?

    Rules are their for a reason, to keep us safe when shooting and to compete on a level playing field no matter what grade you are.
    No matter what ability you are at you`d like to post a score knowing that you did it fairly wouldnt you?
    New shooters, foreign visiting shooters and juniors may have seen you doing this, what will they think? Cheatings Ok is what they would think.
    How can Field Target progress as a sport if WE cant honour the rules of the sport?

    Am I moaning, yep! So please answer the question why YOU think it doesnt matter. Its been bugging me all week.
    Andrew Gillott, 40007
     
  2. CAC

    CAC Member

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    Why it matters

    Agree with you Andrew , it matters ,if we dont follow the rules why bother , Did it at the showdown my fault no one else's presume everyone would do the same , even if my partner had said does not matter( he did not, but like James told me I had shot first one out of sync) I would still put a 0 on the card , .... they are numbered for a reason , should be the same for everyone :confused: should it not ???? rules is rules ,If not can I take the standers sitting .....please ;) ;)
     
  3. Neil-T

    Neil-T Boingers forever.

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    You have my vote

    Had a similar thing happen on day 2 when I was shooting with Jono and Peter. On the kneeling lane ( which I think was lane 4 or 5,) Jono shot the first one on the post at around 42yds, then instead of shooting the closer one at around 25yds, he shot another target behind the shorter kneeler...it was a cracking shot in that wind as it was around 45 yds....It was such a good shot I was tempted to give it to him.......but rules are rules and a zero went on the card. Like you say Andy...we Marshall ourselves, and if we don't know the simple rules of a hit or a miss, or taking a target out of turn then we shouldn't be shooting at that level.

    Neil Thorneycroft
    20517.
    MFTA
     
  4. villiers

    villiers Self appointed antipimp

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    Freebies

    I agree as well , I too have shot targets out of order the last ones being on a little jolly to Norway and I didn't get a freeby. Did that given target beat someone to a placing did some one miss out on prise money , we cant have rules for some and rules for another.
    It's a competition :rolleyes:
     
  5. Gibbs

    Gibbs New Member

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    It's a shame the witness to this didn't pipe up at the time!

    Atb,

    Alec.
     
  6. JamesO

    JamesO Active Member

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    For once I was actually paying attention when I was marshalling, and I was surprised to see the wrong target go down. Unfortunately the two targets on the lane were in line with one another so it was not obvious that Andrew was about to shoot the wrong target or I would have told him.

    It is not a nice way to loose a target, especially as it was the first zero on the card.

    At a shoot such as the Euros the rules should be followed, all the shooters competing should be experienced and if they make a mistake accept it as Andrew did. Even if their marshall is willing to let it go the shooter should be honest.

    The course was not at fault as the targets were clearly numbered but I do feel that course builders have a responsibilty to ensure signs, numbers etc are clear. Not just to minimise errors such as Andrews (which isn't what the sport is about) but to help the flow of the course too.

    I would 'cut some slack' however if I happened to be shooting alongside a novice shooter and their position was not going to affect anyone elses results on the day. Having said that, in such a position I should be making sure as much as possible that the shooter wasn't going to make that mistake. At that level I believe it is more important to show the freindly side of our sport to new shooters and encourage them but while obviously pointing out the potential pitfalls such as shooting targets out of order.

    James
     
  7. DaveRobinson

    DaveRobinson NEFTA Chairman

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    What that gilly bloke said

    Totally agree wi that there gilly
     
  8. Willbe

    Willbe I Like BIG Hats!

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    Similar situation again, this time on the first standing lane (27 and 28?) where 27 was on the small tree about 20 yards away. I managed to shoot 26 which was on the other side of the same tree, yes I know it had numbers, I parallaxed on the bloody thing more than likely! But I made the mistake and shot the wrong target (incidently it fell!) My shooting partner told me "i'm really sorry but that was the wrong target, i'll have to mark it down as a miss" to which I said "**** you have nothing to apologise for, I made a mistake and that is that." If we do not have rules or abide by the ones we have then what the hell are we doing? We may as well pack up and go home as all competitions become meaningless. Andy I'm totally with you on this one.

    Will Baskeyfield
    21347
     
  9. Jamesy

    Jamesy Weerach ninja

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    One of my partner's, Dermot ross, did this on the first lane on Saturday:( Shooting left to right he shot a stander out of sequence, and like James and Karl.. sorry.. Gilly, neither him or me noticed until it was too late, and then i told him of the mistake so he could then shoot it again. As in the rules i marked the first shot as a miss and he took the same target again.:(
    I have to admit i am guilty of letting folk shoot at both targets during local shoots where targets are only numbered at the firing line and they have shot them out of order...:eek: Sorry, it won't happen again.:eek:
    As James said, if it's a newcomer to the sport you feel for them when it happens and want to put the sport across as welcoming, but on reflection the rules are the rules and if it was a standing lane i wouldn't let them sit...
     
  10. TOOL

    TOOL Independent FT Pumper

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    This is why Gilly is my hero !

    That is cheating in my book .

    I personally think the person in question should hang their head in shame as it only hangs a black cloud over the sport if people bend or adapt the rules to suit themselves.

    And when all the PC brigade jump on this saying 'it's only for fun or a hobby etc' then yes maybe in a way but it's a major competition at a major event in the calendar with of course the general public watching , so what do they think ? Oh it's a load of people just pissing about with air guns looks like there's no rules so looks like a waste of time ?

    If they want to just piss about go plink at spoons or Bagpuss's left bollock ! If you want to compete obey the rules or fu@k off and play Scrabble !

    Enough said !
     
  11. andythilo

    andythilo New Member

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    I am a total noob, however rules are rules no matter what your experience or skill level. Instill in people the rules from the start and accept no deviation.

    At my last IPAS pistol competition we had to DQ one of the nicest guys there because of an accidental discharge. Everyone one was gutted but thems the rules.
     
  12. merc350

    merc350 Just wants to shoot...

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    slightly off topic but this is a classic line...:D
     
  13. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    I`m with Gilly. The extra shot / hit can make a huge differnece and as there is big money at the euros, well you can imagine if it had meant hundreads of £ differnce to some!

    There are lots of seemingly silly rules, but if we dont enforce them it will just become a free for all.
    Thats happens at Wafta regional shoots sometimes which are very relaxed compared to other rgional shoots.
    Ok, you have new shooters and sometimes are trying to encourage. I cant see it happening in a mfta winter league shoot though lol

    However, at national level where the course should be Tough(er) and everything is to a much higher shooting standard, every rule should be enfoced. Trigger / barrel over line is one of my favs!

    There are actually a lot of rules that are not in print but i think need to be, could be some new proposals for Agm.
     
  14. rich

    rich Active Member

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    At Shebbear I deliberately set out the majority of lanes with the longer target first. If you can shoot the shorter one first and knock it down and see the POI, it gives you a clue what to do about wind on the longer one. So, being the sneaky type, you don't get given that chance.

    Just to ring the changes, when everyone thinks the first target is always the long one, you'll find the next lane is different. :D
     
  15. AndyIoW

    AndyIoW Member

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    Rules are rules in my opinion.

    If you shoot a target out of order its a miss. If you shoot a positional sitting its a miss. No second chance.

    Having done both I accepted the punishment. Made me feel a right plonker and mentally kicking myself for a few minutes after.

    On the other side of the coin I have asked, after missing a pair of targets, to shoot at the closet one again as I believed I was a turn out. I was but what made it really embrassing was a discussion 2 minutes before hand about not going a turn out made it even worse. The card had been marked with a 0 before the check.

    As someone who does likes putting out courses I prefer to have alternate lane faceplate colours and like Rich I try to be sneaky with target positions to keep shooters on their toes, makes for a course that gets talked about afterwards.
     
  16. Ratinator

    Ratinator Well-Known Member

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    which session

    On the other side of the coin I have asked, after missing a pair of targets, to shoot at the closet one again as I believed I was a turn out.

    I would like someone with better knowledge of the rule's to tell me if this is allowed,seem's to me that being a turn out has cost you two target's.
    But being allowed an extra shot on the coarse has saved you missing more for your error.

    Andy which session was the offender in and which day?
    None of this info matter's,but i would like to think it was an experianced shooter encourageing a new be.
    Of coarse that does not make it right,but may explain why the shooter is makeing up his own rules.
    simon
     
  17. pauljv

    pauljv Member

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    totally agree gilly iv'e been the adult watching our dil shoot and known he's been aiming at a wrong target but not told him as theirs no coaching. plus he would never learn, got called a right rotten bar steward from a couple of people that saw it happen because i didn't warn him he was shooting wrong target but thems the rules so it's a case of tuff sh*t. we've all done it at some point
     
  18. pauljv

    pauljv Member

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    just read what you put simon and as i believe as what happened with me today at a friendly club shoot. the guy i shot with thought he'd gone a turn out so i said looks like you'll have to sacrifice your next target to check he knew the rules and did just that problem solved as in the rules. no one gets any extra shot no matter what
     
  19. staffie

    staffie Member

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    Ditto this!
     
  20. DeanB

    DeanB Member

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    Is it against the rules to warn someone that they are aiming at the wrong target, or were you just getting him into the habit of checking?

    Dean
     

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