Where to go next

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by chrisbaker42, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. chrisbaker42

    chrisbaker42 Member

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    New here but currently shooting HW100 KT with Falcon T35 and always looking to take hobbies to the next level. I thought it would be easy to find the next level in target shooting accuracy but I seem to have opened a veritable can of worms. I shortlisted a few guns then started to do my research.

    Shortlist (in no order)

    RAW TM1000, Steyr LG110, FWB 800, Anschutz 8002

    My initial research only seems to turn up problems with accuracy and coming to this forum I simply find more detailed information about the problems which seem mainly concerning barrels.

    All I really want to do at present is to shoot targets in my back garden as accurately as possible.
     
  2. Scottish Guy

    Scottish Guy Member

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    Why do you want a 2 grand gun to shoot in your garden??
    When you say pellet fussy barrels or fussy barrels that would be the Styer( the new one )
    What are you shooting at ? at what distance ?
    If you want to knock over a 40mm target at 55yds then a Walther,AA pro Target or any of the AA variants or older Styers will do the job.
    If you want to put pellet on at 55yds then I would go for the Anschutz 9003 ( once its been sorted )
    I think for back garden your HW is as good as any.
     
  3. chrisbaker42

    chrisbaker42 Member

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    Having only discovered this forum yesterday I managed to spend an hour or so reading many pages of fascinating information about some of the best target air rifles available before deciding to join. Shortly after joining I was pleased to be enjoying some friendly banter with some very welcoming members and truly felt this was a great place to be.
    It didn't last long as my first serious post was met by the elitist snobbery of a senior member who seems to be suggesting that I have no right to be considering the purchase of one of these better rifles. I choose to compete against myself rather than others and therefore can do so in my garden where I endeavour to match or improve upon my previous performance every time I shoot. But in answer to some of the comments made or questions raised, I am a great believer in using the best tools I can afford for whatever task or occupation I am undertaking, I shoot at cardboard targets in a variety of international sizes at distances up to 50m. I would not waste my time or effort shooting at something as large as 40mm and it can be clearly seen from my sig that I already have a gun more than capable of doing so. At no place in any of my posts have I mentioned pellet fussy barrels I was actually referring to posts both here and on other forums about the problems some owners are having with the nickel plating coming off the inside of their barrels leading to several complaints of inaccuracy. There is also a thread about problems with the FWB 800 zero shift and other problems. Reviews of the TM1000 saying accurate to 40 or 50m but becoming far less so after. Now you are adding to that by saying that the Anschutz 9003 also needs sorting.
    Hopefully my views of this forum will be going back to those stated in the first paragraph of this post when some genuinely helpful advice is given rather than mild bullying and attempts to belittle a new member.
     
  4. rich

    rich Active Member

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    Competing against yourself and seeking an improvement every time you shoot, is going to be one of those holy grail missions. I think you will have times when all goes well and your shooting is on form, then there will be a time when perfect accuracy seems more elusive than ever. That has been my experience, in outdoor comps such as FT and HFT, and indoor comps such as LSR and bench rest.

    If anything, I find bench rest the most frustrating of all. The margin for error is minute, and the search is for the best match of pellet to barrel, along with best pellet consistency. In other words, the input you can make with improved technique won't help your scores; it will be down to the kind manufacturers of the pellets to deliver a consistent product, and the equally kind manufacturers of the rifles to supply one with the least variation from shot to shot.

    In the HW100 you do have a rifle that is more than capable of doing the business. One of the best LSR shots down here uses one and regularly brings home the trophies. Optically the T35 is a superb scope, and why they are so cheap - relatively - is a mystery.

    Searching for those technical improvements is something that many of us do. In competing against your past performance you don't have a yardstick of comparison with others, and it may be that in your part of Wales there aren't too many opportunities for shoulder-to-shoulder comps. We have the same situation in this part of Devon, with very low population density, and the answer is to take part in some postal competitions. That will give you a good measure of how well you are doing. For example, you could shoot bench rest in the Devon County league; you don't need to be resident here. The princely sum of £6 will buy you an entry this winter season, including enough target cards.
     
  5. john0neuk

    john0neuk Well-Known Member

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    Hi chris
    I think you should re read the above! It is not I believe a thread meant to belittle etc. Land softly my freind!
    Re your quest there is some good advise in the above. I started at this just over a year ago and shoot many disciplines - not very well I hasten to add! The ref to 40mm is the target kill size for the longer targets at FT where most of the top end kit is to be found. Indeed as the previous poster states a Walther dominator in its various guises is one of the best. I regret selling mine. Over the last year I have bought and sold a fair few rifles some of the most expensive and some of the least. I too believe in trying the best I can afford! There are very few top end rifles that do not require some sort of "sorting" at FT level indeed very few unmolested rifles are used at the top end. The latest FWB and ANSCHUTZ included.
    Most of the air arms target deriatives are excellent in my experience and can be sourced for good money, the pro target (my current favourite), ev2 (maybe sorted by the likes of Mr Ostler) is very competitive and the FTP after a rocky start is settling to be a desirable choice of many and claiming many prizes along the way. Usually with a freefloated barrel and after market "stripper" which is a low cost sorting!
    Re the Raw lovely rifles and for Bench rest and HFT is one of the more desirable choices at mid market money. I love mine from an engineering point of view. I assume if you are shooting consistently under 40mm groups at 55yds then you bench rest or shoot prone, potentially sitting. Free standing 55yds under 40mm will see your name in lights very soon
    I too started with an HW100, for indoor 20m standing and LSR/turning target - fantastic gun.
    Now use a Daystate airwolf (older model) for same. Use an older Anschutz 2002 for my FT. Shooting and Pro target in FWB alutec stock for fun and my other pro target for BR. All sourced for under £1000. I am just re stocking my Raw for a season of BR to see if it improves over my pro target. There are numerous sage advisors on here Tone uses a RAW to great effect for BR and HFT. Holly holds the Anschutz dear, Vinny is current World Champ HFT and loves his FTP.
    All will provide help and advice.
    As you see from my gallery I have had some nice rifles - but good glass and practice levels the playing field considerably! Hope to see you compete going forward - it really is good fun! Enjoy!
     
  6. chrisbaker42

    chrisbaker42 Member

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    Many thanks for that, some useful and very helpful info, I will give the postal comp some serious thought.
     
  7. chrisbaker42

    chrisbaker42 Member

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    Thanks also to johnOneuk for more helpful info. My main objections to the first response was the suggestion that shooting in my garden could not be serious and also attributing comments about pellet fussy Steyrs to me which I have never said on this or any other forum as I had never until this morning even heard of that problem. I will take on board the helpful advice given and perhaps put the TM1000 towards the top of the list.
     
  8. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    That's quite an abrasive post for post No 11.

    I'm not sure the guy was being elitist. Just asking sensible questions.

    What style of shooting are you doing? Are you bench resting at 50m and want to see how accurate you can get the groups? Are you shooting HFT style prone? FT style sitting? Kneeling? Standing?

    Buying a 2k top end target rifle may not automatically ensure you will get better accuracy than with your HW100.

    The stock will probably be fully adjustable. The trigger may be fully adjustable and able to be set with an excellent release. However if you have found a pellet that goes really well in your HW100 and got the trigger set up well to suit you ... you may not see a great deal of improvement.

    If you are bench resting at 50m on a still day then a 40mm kill can be reasonably easy. If there is variable wind it's not. If you are shooting kneeling it's not. If you are shooting all padded up off a bench then are you testing your ability or the rifle/pellet combo?

    If you are shooting sitting or kneeling or standing then you'll have to go a long way to match the accuracy of the HW100.

    What do you want from another rifle that the HW can't give you? Better fit? Better shot to shot consistency?

    What shooting are you doing?
     
  9. chrisbaker42

    chrisbaker42 Member

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    My shooting due to health limitations is primarily rested but not a full bench rest rig, rather me seated using a front bag and currently with the HW100 producing 14 shot groups sub 8mm at 25m, sub 30mm at 40m. The desire for a rifle such as the FWB 800 is really threefold, the desire to own and use the best I can, the wish to do everything to the best of my ability and of course I really love the looks of the thing.

    Apologies for being too abrasive but I really do object to being told that in this case perhaps the guns on my shortlist are too good for me.
     
  10. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Hey up

    Loads of us on here will understand the health issues limiting our shooting. Good on you for taking part however you can despite those problems.

    I don't know the lad that replied to you but I don't suspect he would be saying any gun is too good for you. We see many shooters coming on here and bouncing from one supergun to the next looking for instant improvement. The advise is always the same. No one can buy improvement. That comes with time and effort and listening to advice and improving technique.

    The bottom line is it's your money. If you want the best and you can afford it and having it will bring you enjoyment ... no brainer.

    The HW100 with the right pellet will do sub 20mm groups at 45 yards and sub 25/30mm at 55 yards. So there is room for improvement on the 30mm at 40m that you mention. That could be barrel cleaning or better pellet selection ... or an improvement on your part.

    You said you shoot at targets at up to 50m ( 55 yards ) and you wouldn't waste your time shooting at something as large as 40mm ... but you are getting groups of 14 shots @ 30mm at 40m. So there seems some work to do to get all groups inside 40mm at 50m.

    I think there's probably plenty of enjoyment left in the HW with your scope finding the right pellet and polishing technique to squeeze those groups down a tad. You may not see any improvement with a top end target rifle.

    If you want the target rifle and can afford it ... just buy it. Maybe look for a second hand option, then if you don't like it you can always move it on for not a great loss.

    The top end target rifles provide a couple of things ...

    A very small percentage improvement in accuracy which may just give that edge to a top end comp shooter ( say a few extra targets over a season ). So for them it's worth it. I would imagine that's why the lad was suggesting that you don't really need one of those for shooting in your garden when you can compete against yourself with the gun you have.

    The chance to own a rifle of prestige, knowing that you own the best, and therefore may achieve the best results if you are one day up to that level. Loads of shooters own these rifles for these reasons. They are the reasons you mention ... and that's fine. Most will never reach the personal ability to get the best out of the rifle but owning them gives them a buzz and if they put off buying one that itch never goes away.

    At the opposite end of the scale are the weirdos like myself that like the idea of buying bargain basement stuff and trying to get the best out of it ( knowing in reality that my ability will still struggle to reach the best that kit can offer ). There's that buzz you get from having someone's pants down when they have 2k's extra worth of gear than you do. That's not an issue for you as you are competing against yourself.

    Enjoy the shooting whatever you decide. Let us know what you decide on and what results you get.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
  11. chrisbaker42

    chrisbaker42 Member

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    Certainly agree on the room for improvement with my current setup, I am still at the stage of sorting the best pellets for my gun and improving my overall technique. As you say I will just carry on enjoying myself and carry on reading the sound advice contained within this forum.
     
  12. rich

    rich Active Member

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    There is also the pride to be had from ownership of really well-made kit, of all kinds. And there's no shame in that, I call it male jewellery. My Omega watch is carved out of solid gold and is worth a lot of money, but it doesn't tell the time any better than my Seiko which is titanium and half the weight.

    The poster who got under your skin was probably trying to hold you back from spending a lot of money when in reality it wouldn't make much of an improvement to your results and to your enjoyment.

    Believe me, it's a fallacy that a chap has to have the best and the newest kit to find success. I've been shooting airguns since I was about 12, and that was nearly 60 years ago. In that time I've bought three new air rifles; all of my other acquisitions have been second hand.
     
  13. chrisbaker42

    chrisbaker42 Member

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    It's certainly not success I am craving as I stopped entering any kind of competition about thirty years ago. I simply want to do anything I try to the best of my ability and as you say to own things that by their very being give me pleasure.
     
  14. chrisc

    chrisc Lucky git

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    I think one of the main problems you'll find Chris will be that there are so many differing attitudes to the different Target marques. I'm a Steyr man but have owned most target rifles apart from the FTP. There have been some issues with the Steyr barrels but it seems to been a blip in a small number of the longer barrelled 2014 models taken in context to the sheer number of Steyr's out there. My current HFT steyr is 10 years old and my FT one is 11 years old. Both have recently had new barrrels but that's purely down to the amount of pellets shot through them and (more likely) a too aggressive barrel cleaning regime.:eek:

    I personally put the Steyr and Walther Dommie on an equal footing as the best of the target rifles. The Steyr beats the Dommie for me as there's nothing i can't do on a Steyr and i find the fit a bit better. The Dommie (IMHO) has a better trigger but i find the Steyr has a smoother shot cycle. however i have shot other Dommie's (apart from my own) and found that they have been truly superb for feel so it can even be down to the individual rifle.

    Best advice:p...join a club and try as many different types as you can. Once you have decided on the rifle you want then try to shoot as many pellets through it as possible before handing over the cash...for a SH purchase that is.:D
     
  15. chrisbaker42

    chrisbaker42 Member

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    Thanks for that.
     

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