Walther lgv1.77 main spring

Discussion in 'Piston & Spring' started by Malcolm lockhart, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Malcolm lockhart

    Malcolm lockhart Member

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    As replacement main springs are so difficult to get, has anyone tried a Titan Spring. My calculations come up with a no 1. Cut down of course. I make original 7.6 N/MM and a no1 7.9 N/mm. It would have 27 coils as to 33 but I'm just guessing. Anyone been there.
     
  2. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    try this

    http://www.sportwaffen-schneider.de/product_info.php/products_id/27690

    or

    http://www.waffencenter-gotha.de/sh...Modell-2012-nicht-alte-Ausfuehrung::4420.html


    we got 3 of those full kits .
    i Think rob got them from judith bilharz .
    It was a while ago i think they were 40 odd pounds .

    we've deffo got the springs still brand new ask rob he might sell you one , dont think we''ll be using them .


    i think i've heard of issues with these guns mullering springs , some people have been modifying the transfer port to rectify the issue .

    i could have imagined all that though
     
  3. Malcolm lockhart

    Malcolm lockhart Member

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    It seems true about them knackering springs. I'm not so sure about altering the tp in respect to helping the Spring, maybe if in conjunction to lightening the piston. Will just have to experiment and see if I can find an easy accessible Spring, sick of all the fight I'm having its like trying to find the holy grail. Will start with the no 1 Titan.
     
  4. poth

    poth Whafta old Gits world champion

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    There is a group on facebook called lost volume all about Springer's some very good boys on there they will point you in the right direction
     
  5. blacklab

    blacklab Active Member

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    spring guide

    i got a document on the specs of titan springs , and loads of other springs if you pm your email i will send it to you, should help you match your original spring for the titan equivalent
     
  6. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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  7. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    Aww Bless .

    You still think there's a Holy Grail of springer springs .

    It seems they are all overworked to make the powers we want check out Rob's calculator thread............any one for 7.5 j ?..........ah ......thought not .:eek:o
     
  8. Malcolm lockhart

    Malcolm lockhart Member

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    Thanks for the replys, been using the information from here. Not sure if I've worked it out
    right but using the original 236 long,3.35 wire, 20.8 od, 14.4 id, 33coils, I get 7.6 N/MM. A no 1 Titan cut down to 236 @27 coils should give me 7.9 N/MM and might do the job, unless I've cocked up. Worth a punt for 20 quid, what you think.
     
  9. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    Interested in your rate calculations .

    Dunno if the no 1 will work .
    The original spring is quite gentle , despite the thick wire gauge . Lots of coils .

    What's the preload like on a std spring
     
  10. pelletcaster

    pelletcaster New Member

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    Hi lads,
    so far I fettled some LGV and LGU so here my 2-Cents.


    WALTHER uses the same sub-12fpe spring (in Germany called (16 Joule) "Exportfeder" for the LGV awa the LGU.

    Here my measures - please give a tolerance of abt. 1-2 tenths of millimeter due to my poor vernier.

    Length 240
    OD 20,90
    ID 14,30
    wire 3,30
    coils 33,0
    avg dist between coils 4,40
    weight 120

    LGV preload 45,50
    LGV transfer port 3,10 / 25,00
    avg power 11,1 fpe /15,1 Joule (with one 2mm slip washer)

    LGU preload - not measured
    LGU transfer port should be (opened) to 3,20 to 3,40 / L 6,00
    avg power 11,3 fpe / 15,3 Joule (with one 2mm slip washer)


    There is no need to buy the whole original WALTHER tuning kit.
    You can get just the a/m springs (though with a rear guide and some grease):
    http://www.sportwaffen-schneider.de/product_info.php/products_id/27690

    Hope this helps.
    ATB
    Andy
     
  11. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    Good specs Andy .

    Saw the spring kit , we actually wanted the pistons rather than the springs .
    That's why the springs we have are kinda surplus .

    To be honest, 24.95 for a spring kit vs 39.95 for the full kit (,which gives you the spring kit contents plus a brand new piston and bearings and a seal .), makes the full kit pretty good value to me .

    Out of curiosity , what is the nature of the failures of these std springs ?

    Do they snap or distort , or just go weak ?
     
  12. Malcolm lockhart

    Malcolm lockhart Member

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    They just go weak. Preload is 25mm. My Spring has shrunk 4 mm. The gun is shooting with very little recoil 10.5, l have it extra polished out inside and the barrel breach 45 degrees lead in and an extra 3 MM preload, but it keeps dropping after a few hundred shots.
     
  13. pelletcaster

    pelletcaster New Member

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    I can't confirm that they shrink as of all the models I had there is still a LGV and a LGU left (no intention to sell:)) and I did'nt open them again - no reason so far.

    What I learned from all the forums I read is that springs in some LGU snapped. The most probably reason is that the TP were not opened from the original "F" / 7,5 Joule / 5,5 fpe - version with 2,6 mm to about 3,2 to 3,4 mm causing serious piston bounce.

    I went through my files and filtered some data right now.
    Here my numbers:

    LGU
    16.08.2015: new sub-12fpe kit installed
    total of shots since installation of kit: 1810

    50 shots measured Sep 2015
    JSB EE 7,9 gr / 11,6 fpe / 814,6 fps / max dev 1,9% / std dev 3,7 fps

    50 shots measured March, April, July 2017
    JSB EE 7,9 gr / 11,5 fpe / 810,0 fps / max dev 1,7% / std dev 3,2 fps

    LGV
    16.08.2013: new sub-12fpe kit installed
    total of shots since installation of kit: 4790

    50 shots measured Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov 2013
    JSB EE 7,9 gr / 11,4 fpe / 807,0 fps / max dev 2,2% / std dev 3,5 fps

    90 shots measured March and July 2017
    JSB EE 7,9 gr / 11,6 fpe / 813,7 fps / max dev 3,1% / std dev 3,8 fps


    From this I cant see any proof of loosing power - at least in my guns.
    I'm afraid I'm not shooting them guns enough. :rolleyes: :D

    ATB
    Andy
     
  14. Malcolm lockhart

    Malcolm lockhart Member

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    The history of mine a comp ultra 1.77, with I presume 2.6 tp. Set off 11.3 very accurate and nice to shoot. Brian Samson when he shot it at his range said best he's shot and put pellet on pellet length of his range. No piston bounce just nice to shoot. The breach was square and could clip pellets if not pushed in far enough. Over a few tins of pellets power slowly dropped to 10.2, after reading this was normal for them I took it apart and relubed. Power up to 10.7 but soon dropped down again. I had four attempts with different lubes and preloads and all crap results, wouldn't hold power. Ended up polishing internals, sleving piston, breach lead in, and a 3mm preload making 28mm. I lubed next to nothing the least I could put on just a round the seal and back piston bearing. It was doing 10.6 first shots and shooting with next to nothing sight picture movement. It's going to make a liar of me, just back from 200 shots, shooting superbly and holding power at 10.7. Don't know how to tell the Spring is knackered, it's doing my head in. I can only think the Spring has dropped to 10.2 ish and I have gained .5 with what I've done to it. Can only shoot it and see what happens now. Think it's bullshite a top company sells guns to a country and no spares, what kind of crack is that.
     
  15. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    Assuming you are using an 8.44 grain pellet, that equates to around 757 fps.

    The extra 30 fps to get to around 11.5 won't make a massive difference at the target, so if it is shooting superbly leave it alone until such time it drops severely and just get on with shooting.
     
  16. bigtoe

    bigtoe Member

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    Location:
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    Lads you can order spares from Armex for the LGU and LGV, some may have to go thru an RFD but not all, those that do it may be easier to just order from Germany.

    The issue with the LGU is the port is to small, if you leave the piston at stock weight around 3.3mm works good BUT this can still fatigue the spring a little if you push the set up to hard. Lighten the piston down and the port can come out to 3.6mm, this massively helps, those fatigued springs you all have will suddenly now work just fine.
    I run 4mm ports on some of my set ups now, all depends on piston weight and diameter etc. The springs are actually quite soft, the port is short enough to make the setup very efficient BUT its strangled down to the 7.5J spec for some reason, (probably to limit the power available). The seals are very good, just remember to use the LGU seal in the LGU and not the LGV as they are different.

    LGV, interesting to see 3.1mm port in the thread.

    See mention of my Lost Volume group on FB ;)
     
    MickyFinn likes this.

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