Walther LG300 Dominator - Joe Korick regulators

Discussion in 'Walther' started by JasonGoldsmith66, Nov 3, 2009.

?

Have you (or will you) replace your standard Walther LG300 Regulator ?

  1. YES

    5 vote(s)
    23.8%
  2. NO

    16 vote(s)
    76.2%
  1. JasonGoldsmith66

    JasonGoldsmith66 Banned

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    Replacement for the standard Walther LG300 regulator costs USD$250.00

    Joe makes them in batches when he has sufficient orders...

    Have ordered one to fit in my new Walther LG300 Hunter.

    Will post a review when I receive and fit.

    Joe's email is: joekorick@comcast.net

    BTW, this is the chap who assisted AA in the development of their regulators:

    http://home.comcast.net/~joekorick/personal.htm

    http://home.comcast.net/~joekorick/aa_article.htm

    The people at Air Arms have a definite engineering bias, and they re happy to admit that a solid part of the success of the Pro Target MkIII is due to the regulator designs of our own Joe Korick, a multi-talented engineer based in Vancouver, Washington. Joe is one of those guys who has enjoyed designing and building things for as long as he can remember – it s really the creative side of the work that excites him, the problem-solving. Production work is something he can do when he has to, but it s not his first love.

    After a hitch in the Air Force Joe worked in a propulsion systems laboratory, running jet engines in a test cell and working with the project engineers designing test fixtures and the special tools required for the tests they ran. This work gave him his first real experience of R&D and confirmed his passion for it; meanwhile he kept on with his education and acquired a degree and a federal license for working on aircraft.

    As Joe says, “to this day I work on business jets as my primary source of income, and as a side line to my day-to-day work I design specialty tooling and equipment for aircraft maintenance; some of these tools I use to make my job easier and some I market to other aircraft maintenance facilities. Aircraft work gives you a pretty rich background, since of course aircraft maintenance deals with electrical and mechanical systems, hydraulics and pneumatics.â€

    Are we starting to see where those Pro Target regulators come from, Gentle Reader? Add to that these memories of Joe s: “As a child I loved shooting. For my seventh Birthday my father gave me my first BB gun. I grew up in Southern California and our home backed up to a big field which some nearby dairy used to grow feed for their cows. All that separated me from the field was a chain link fence. I got to shoot as often as I could coax my father out of his easy chair to supervise me in our back yard.â€

    As Joe grew up he learned to enjoy shooting firearms as well, but like a lot of us he found it was a pain to have to go to all the bother necessary to find a place to shoot them. Airguns meant backyard shooting, easy for pest control and plinking. Then came that fateful moment we all know so well: Joe discovered adult airguns! Of course like any beginner he was interested in big power, so he ended up with an RWS 52 in .22 cal. (I remember that stage, too – I can still hear the twangs in my head and feel my molars loosening against the cheekpiece). Step 2 was hooking up with like-minded airgunners, and soon he was lucky enough to find an active local club involved in silhouette and field target shooting. From there he developed his shooting and airgun collecting cheerfully until the day somebody showed up at a shoot with a Sportsmatch GC2 ... wow! Joe had to have a PCP! Unfortunately, the price was way over his head. What to do?

    Here Joe s background let him make a choice few of us could make for ourselves. Instead of a dead-end investment in a single gun, Joe turned the money around into a lathe and a mill – he would build his own gun! He did (see photos) and one thing led to another – soon he was making equipment for other airgunners.

    The move into regulator design grew naturally out of Joe s work on his first gun. It was clear that he was going to have to design a regulator for himself, so he took apart every gun that he could get his hands on and analyzed the regulator design for any flaws. He also read up on the subject and discovered that the design he wanted to expand upon had been widely used in the SCUBA diving field, which gave him a solid platform to work with. Fortunately, Joe was willing to share the story of his work on regulator design with U.S. Airgun s readers, so let s let him tell about it in his own words:

    “As the regulator design was evolving it was necessary to build test fixtures that could cycle the reg and give information that was needed as to what was actually happening during the regulator cycle. Without the regulator checker it would be very difficult to determine what setting the reg was at or if there were any detrimental effects going on.



    The decision to use a particular valving system was based on several factors. I have always believed that simple is better than complicated. The more moving parts and seals there are, the more there is to go wrong. Also simplicity in manufacturing has to play a significant role. If it takes a long time to fiddle with the unit to get it working it would probably be too finicky for trouble free operation over a long period of time. Also ease of repair and seal replacement was considered. It is only a matter of time or number of shots before the o-ring seals start to wear and start to leak.



    The design I use only has two dynamic seals, which actually see wear from the moving valve. This limited the wear to these two points. The next consideration in limiting the wear was the travel that the valve moved from shot to shot. The other designs which I studied used coil springs to offset the air pressure. This had two drawbacks. 1) The coil spring had a lot of travel from empty to full setting, as much as .250â€. Also inherent to coil springs is that they impart a twisting motion as they are compressed and relaxed. This meant that the seals would see the valve rotating as it moved through its travel during each cycle. These were areas that I saw needed improving if I was to produce a more reliable regulator. I decided to use Bellville washers as my spring source. These are cupped washers made of spring steel. They were very strong and have an extremely long service life. They also do not twist during operation and the overall travel from empty to full was only .050â€. This was about 1/5 the travel of the other design. Which should equate to 5 times the life of the seals. I also reduced the diameter of the seals required so that there was less surface area exposed to the moving valve. Here again this equates to less wear and a longer life. This was the easier potion of the development..



    Now came the hard part: the main seal which shuts off the flow of air to the regulated side of the valve. This is the most critical part of the regulator. There are a lot of detrimental effects which stem from this area. The biggest of these is “Creepâ€. Creep is the condition that occurs when the regulator does not stop the flow of air completely after the valve has shut. This allows the regulator pressure to continually climb over time. Some may climb a little, or it may climb to what ever the reservoir is filled to. It just depends on how well it seals the valve.

    A lot of testing was accomplished here until I came up with the material I use today. One thing is for sure; I now know a lot of materials which don t work!



    The next stage was to decide on the body of the regulator. Because I had reduced the size during the seal phase, I could now incorporate a larger secondary chamber into the design, which is required for higher energy levels of the US market. The trick was not to make it so big that it ate up valuable high-pressure air volume that would reduce the number of shots per fill, and still give enough volume at the regulated pressure to get the velocity required.



    The next phase of the development was the incorporation of the regulator into different guns. Precharges come in all shapes and sizes. The reservoirs are usually one of two sizes. 1 inch OD or 1 ¼â€ OD. So this meant two distinctively different reg body sizes. Except for one thing -- different gun manufacturers use different wall thickness tubing. This meant the reg bodies had to be able to be adjusted to changes in designs as they unfolded over time. For this reason I make the regulators in two oversized body styles and custom fit them to the particular gun they will be fit to. This insures the best fit possible. But it also means I have to do the installation. With a few exceptions the regulators, which I produce, are not for the “do it yourselferâ€. This also allows me to keep a tighter control on the quality of the reg and the installation.



    As time has gone by gun makers have changed their designs to include external regulators. Typically, the user can install these. The first reg of this type that I produced was the regulator for the RN-10 from Air Arms. My goal here was to make a direct, screw in replacement, for the unit supplied at that time by Air Arms. Other manufacturers have also followed suit and are also using this same type of design technique. From my stand point this make my job of producing regulators for the ever-increasing variety of gun a bit more difficult. Unless there are sufficient numbers of people wanting these regs, each has to be hand made from scratch. The most economical way to produce these regulators is to sub contract the large production items to a company with computer-controlled machines.



    Actually, it wasn t long after Joe had begun producing regulators that the Air Arms connection took place – the dealer who was importing the RN10 at that time was doing a conversion which involved installing a titanium reservoir and barrel shroud, but he wasn t happy with the regulator – would Joe undertake an R&D job? Joe agreed, and the rest is history. Word soon spread to England and Nick Jenkinson got in touch. Joe sent over a couple of regs for Air Arms to test, and he was later informed that they had set up an automatic test fixture which cycled the sample regulator 35,000 times over a 2-day period with no failures. Air Arms didn t waste any time arranging a contract to use the design in their next generation of rifles, now familiar to us as the Pro Target Mk III/Tactical Hunter .

    Now Joe has expanded his approach to the widest possible range of PCP s, and besides Air Arms guns he can supply regulators for Daystates, Ripleys, Falcons, Anschutz, Feinwerkbau, Steyr and the Korean PCP s. Anytime a new model comes out, Joe goes back to his drawing board. R&D continues to be Joe s first love, so he does plenty of airgun-related work besides regulators – in addition to his corporate contract work he handles requests from individuals who want particular pieces of equipment designed or modifications carried out on their guns. In addition he is working on targets, gun caddies, regulator checkers, special airgun tools, etc. For Joe, all this creative work is pure pleasure. If you have a project you d like to talk to him about, you can e-mail him at joekorick@comcast.net one thing for sure, if he agrees to do it, you ll be getting the services of one of the most fertile engineering minds in the airgun field!
     

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    Last edited: Nov 3, 2009
  2. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    Why waste money on a new reg when the current Walther Reg has no problems at all ???
     
  3. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    If you think the Standard reg is inferior I'll give you £50 for it :D

    P.S. What are you going to do when it needs servicing :D
     
  4. mikewills8904

    mikewills8904 walthers last the course

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    walther reg

    why would i buy another reg for my domis when i get + or - 5 fps on all of them

    and if i have a problem with mine i can sort it sort myself

    anyone wanting to sell there existing reg i will give you £51 for it
     
  5. Neale M

    Neale M Member

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    Current Walther Reg are very good no need to change it ;)
     
  6. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    OK I'll give you £52 :D
     
  7. JasonGoldsmith66

    JasonGoldsmith66 Banned

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    Scooby, the Joe Corick is really a hedge against the existing Walther reg failing...despite the fact Walther claims to have cured this problem once & for all...

    You are the first chap who categorically claims there is nothing wrong with the new regs., but I have seen a post here in this forum recently claiming that after 500 shots, the seal or whatever, is already beginning to show signs of wear, tear, etc..

    Hence, Its simply a hedge...once I install the Joe K. reg., thats it for me...plenty of US shooters/forums swear by them....and JK pedigree and custom mods on the Walther convinces his stuff is quality.

    As far as servicing, no big deal...a 2 or 3 week turn around by Express Mail to USA is way better than waiting 3 to 6 or 9 months in some cases .... to get a replacement seal or have a service by the current Walther UK agent...with whom I was not to impressed with, in getting a quote for a new Walther, nor in answering my potential purchase queries. Apparently Brocock was rubbish, and I would have thought the new guy at Bisley would be outstanding in making a sale and answering my queries...but I was sadly dissapointed.

    So, I ended up getting my Walther from Holland - www.kraele-schietsport.com, can you believe it ?

    Anyhow, am happy this forum is so chockablock full of Walther shooters !
     
  8. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Why? I've got 2 spares and 3 on guns which all work as well as can be asked. If I had a major problem I'm sure someone I know with a reg checker could help me solve it. As for the seal again I reckon there's a chap on here who could help if needs be!;):)

    Ryan
     
  9. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Jason, I think that seal is the knock open valve, which is past the reg.

    I know Mr. Murphy had said there was an element in the mk1 that could fail by design, but he fixes that, and the mk2 doesn't have that failiure point.

    That said, thanks for the info... i wouldn't mind one to play with, or to test... does he need an original reg to work off?
     
  10. mikewills8904

    mikewills8904 walthers last the course

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    ok ill go £54.50 :eek:
     
  11. villiers

    villiers Self appointed antipimp

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    No need current reg is more than fine;)
     
  12. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    Jason, you want to be careful what you read & who you listen to.

    The post you refer to was my post & refers to a small plastic seal that can easily be changed, it is not actually in the reg itself.

    Put it this way, I know personally most of the top Walther shooters in this country, both FT & HFT & I can't think of one who uses a Korick reg. They may be the dogs Danglies & look all shiny but there is nothing wrong with the Walther reg.

    If you want to waste your money on a reg that won't give you a performance increase over the unit supplied with your gun then that is upto you, then when it needs servicing you can send it back to Joe for servicing.

    Currently the Standard reg users have the option of sending a reg to about four different guys who can turn around a reg in a few days.

    Like I said earlier I'll give you £55 for your inferior reg :D
     
  13. JasonGoldsmith66

    JasonGoldsmith66 Banned

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    ...found the old post, straight from Scooby:

    " I've just taken apart a brand new LG300 Alutec which was picked up new on Friday & only came from BSW on Tue/Wed, Walther are still using the PTFE seals & after 500 shots over the weekend the seal had already started to deform "



    So guys, am really confused, is there a problem even with the new regs., or not ? and to complicate matters, some of you know how Walther seems to be building their actions haphazardly with no correlation to the actual build date and serial number !?

    So, I rather be safe, than sorry...my Hunter serial nbr is 50620 ...can you advise me whether its got the PFTE or green seal ?

    Or is it New old action/stock, or new/new action regulator ???...
     
  14. JasonGoldsmith66

    JasonGoldsmith66 Banned

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    Ah ! you posted before I posted !...Ok, I geddit...no problemo , as I misunderstood and freaked out when I read your comment as I though the seal and reg were all part of one & the same unit !

    LOL ! My Walther original reg. wont be for sale , Cheers !
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2009
  15. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    Hi Jason,

    Have a guess how many of these 2009 placings were won using a Korick reg, I'll give you a clue it begins with a ZERO

    WHFTA World HFT championships, 1st, 5th & 8th plus Manufacturers Team Title

    UKAHFT Series 1st, 4th, 5th

    BFTA European FT championships - 1st, 2nd, 5th & 7th

    BFTA Grand Prix Series - 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th & 9th plus Manufacturers Team Title
     
  16. JasonGoldsmith66

    JasonGoldsmith66 Banned

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    :confused:

    Ok, I acquiesce...maybe I read too much into the US forums...

    I gather Mk1 regs are rubbish and have been fiddled by knowledgeable shooters to make the LG300 shoot decently, and as far as existing Walther regs., then the problem is no longer existent ?

    I'll have to strip my Reg down to get some better understanding of its internals, with ref; to the green or PFTE washers (have no clue what & where they are).

    But thanks anyway.:D
     
  17. villiers

    villiers Self appointed antipimp

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    In the last four years i have only serviced one Korick reg ,it was nicely made and it worked at a lower pressure because it had a larger firing chamber.I have serviced a lest ten standard reg the only thing i an say about the std reg is to only full to 200bar and cover the vent hole in the side of the reg as if it gets damp in there it will fail:shot:.My std one does the job its just me i have to sort out:).
     
  18. JasonGoldsmith66

    JasonGoldsmith66 Banned

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    Thanks for the advice villiers...

    Now how do I cover the vent hole on the original reg ? silly putty ? a drop of candle wax ? sorry if these sound like dumb questions :D

    On the Joe K. Reg, does lower pressure mean Its a good thing ? I presume it does...ie Less air pressure to get the pellet moving = more shots right ? so a small alu. cyclinder with a 200 bar fill and a Joe K reg will simply give me the advantage of more shots ?
     
  19. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    Right Jason lets start at the beginning

    The seals we are all talking about, whether it's the old green or Blue Walther seals or the newer white PTFA Walther seals are not part of the Regulator, it sits in the action & provides a seal bewteen the reg body & the action but also between the firing valve & the action.

    You've purchased your rifle from a Dutch dealer so you have no idea how long it's been in stock, I have a hunter action 50617 which is about 2 years old & came with the white seal.

    As a little bit of history for you Nick Murphy originally started to use Harder seals in the Standard Walther regs that he modified, at some stage Nick passed on his ideas to Walther who have been saying for some time that they would be changing the firing valve seal for a harder material, these changes upto now have not materialised.
     
  20. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    That's a strange one Don as I have four regs & have serviced quite a few for others in the last year but I've never seen one with any rust on the Belvilles.
     

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