virgin courses for 2012

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by strangefroot, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. strangefroot

    strangefroot Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    syorks
    Been thinking ...... ive lost count of the times that ive heard people that ive been shooting a course with say " cant believe ive just missed that , i hit it 4 times on the trot yesterday ". Or others saying that they know the distance of most ( or all )the targets on a course .This has happened at regional , national & even world championship level from time to time over the years .

    The way that people usually justifythis behaviour is with the excuse " its home advantage "....In my book there should be no such thing !I mean , how can it be ok for someone to travel 2 , 3 , 400 miles & be denied points or a qualifying place because " local yokel larry " has scanked them, by practicing on the course for an age .

    Most of the grounds that we visit have the scope to alter the target angle or shift the firing line back or forth to ensure no advantage is gained by anyone .

    We at anston have a gp round this year & i can guarantee that not a single target will have been shot prior to the shoot or that anyone knows the distance of any shots .

    So im appealing to all shoot hosts , to design a course that is a fair challenge to EVERYONE that travels to your shoot .

    cheers , calps
     
  2. aitchuk

    aitchuk Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Club:
    redfearns
    Very well said you ladder climbing tree gnome
    Home advantage should be in knowing your ground not were the targets are
    at Redfearns no one shoots even a club course before the comp.

    Aitch
     
  3. paul4be

    paul4be Why do I bother????????

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,169
    Location:
    Richmond, North Yorkshire
    Club:
    Darlington RA
    Sounds fair enough.

    Are you sure that you just don't want virgin firing lines so that you can have a fresh hunt for pellets. ;);)
     
  4. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,059
    Location:
    Ardboe, Co.Tyrone.
    Club:
    Back Hill Ballistics; DFTC; Nelson FTC
    Just cause you've been around that long Calps that your bored with the courses, rumour has it you planted the mighty oak trees at Weston Park as seedlings!
    P.s. nothing beats a bit of virgin
     
  5. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,577
    Location:
    Skewen
    Club:
    Avon Hawks, Tondu, Oaktree
    Interesting points calps.

    I will know the distance to every target at Tondu for the wafta gp this year, but thats because I am trying to build a balanced course that is not all 45 + yards.
    I am looking to have 10 full size kills under 40 yards as its a pet hate of mine in Gp where full size targets are all 40+. However, even some of the 30 -39 yard full kills will be tricky shots if there is wind.
    However, i can assure anyone that it wont matter if i know the course ranges (some one has to when it comes to 50 + yards, standers, kneeler, reducers anyway) as my leupold very rearly lets me down in range finding.
    Although the course will be built in Yards, i range find in meters and even where i know a target range ( in yards) i always follow the same procedure and range find it in Mt etc.

    Despite this the top bowl (new area) and top ponds (new lane angles + ranges) will be very differcult unless there is zero wind. We dont shot the top ponds very often but did last week as a test for the gp, to get an idea of how tough it will be.
    Turned out to be much tougher than i expected and i was missing 4 or 5 times before getting the wind, so home advantage in wind in these lanes is a myth !
    The wind was constantly changing strength, if its like that on the gp day i would be very tempted to bring target over 45 yards to under 45 as other wise there are going to be alot of misses?

    I am changing as much as i can from previous shoots at Tondu but its not possible to change all 25 lane locations.
    Some will be in the same place as previous Gp / Regional shoots but as you say the targets will at least be different distances and angles.
    We do have a number of new lanes I and other Tondu members have been clearing over the last few weeks, it needs doing now as in a few weeks the greenery & brambles are back and its four times the work to clear a new lane then. I am quite pleased with the new lanes down the bottom ponds as the shooting positions have not ever been used. i dont think the lanes will be too differcuiult but again its about balancing a course? The lower lanes at tondu should be easier than the higher top bowl /Pond + Banks. Thats where our gp will be won or lost!

    I think we will have 10 lanes that no one will have ever shot before, but the others will be fairly familuar in regards to the firing line position / posts.
    Cant really find a way round out but i do try to make every shoot different from the last as much as possible.
    I too hate going to grounds where as you say people know the distances etc, usually where perminent course are left out.
    Its one of the reasons i like travelling round the regions as its new grounds mosdt of the time, least to me!

    I hope that as long as the scores are not too low and shooters enjoy the amount of variation between lanes i am trying to achieve they will enjoy the shoot. Even if their GP score dont start with a 4!!
     
  6. Ceathreamhnan

    Ceathreamhnan WHFTA Champion 2013

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    790
    Location:
    Stirling
    Club:
    Dunfermline
    It's more of an advantage in hft I would say.

    To the OP: I guess this is why there's a league. Why not badger your club to give yourself a home advantage?:D
     
  7. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,577
    Location:
    Skewen
    Club:
    Avon Hawks, Tondu, Oaktree
    whats a Virgin?

    Baaaa
     
  8. Mr P

    Mr P Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,028
    Location:
    Sunny Ilkeston
    Club:
    Castle
    So You have bought 50 new targets have you calps :D:D But back in the real world totally agree with you .
     
  9. DaveRobinson

    DaveRobinson NEFTA Chairman

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,118
    Location:
    Killamarsh
    Club:
    Anston
    No we are using existing targets but our club probationees (one person) as part of there initiation have to sit with a wooden spoon and scrape all the paint off the targets and then repaint them so the will look like bram new
     
  10. holly

    holly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,849
    Location:
    ISLE OF WIGHT
    Club:
    carisbrooke rangers
    Nope , Sorry ?

    Don't agree with that one bit . we have a strip wood .only so much you can do with it and after a few shoots there .i guarantee you will know the ranges to most of the trees . BUT that will not help your scores one jot . the wind is the factor at our club . if you can read it then you are a better man than me . having said that , if you have a big ground . no problem .one thing i will say , when you get to MAD for their GP . you will wish you DID know the course . gonna be a stinker ??? HOLLY
    PS hope you are looking after our spy at Anston . Bob Dickinson , he say's you almost killed him doing the last GP course .:):D
     
  11. berty177

    berty177 Judge Diva

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Messages:
    2,015
    Location:
    South Wales
    Club:
    Nelson FTC
    Course knowledge

    Calps,

    I agree with you bud, I know it's hard at some clubs as they are limited for angles etc.

    In nelson we are lucky to have a lad simon tipping who just enjoys setting courses. He hardly shoots but as he's happy to do course setting we leave it to him to check ranges etc to make sure the lads in the club like myself, doz and jack don't get an advantage over others.

    We are all involved in the target placements using the grounds natural angles etc to make the course interesting.

    I'm sure nelsons course last year was an eye opener on how to maximise course angles with not having a crazy amount of long shots, despite what some people say.

    That's my opinion on making things fair across the board...


    Berty
     
  12. strangefroot

    strangefroot Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    syorks
    Ok then , holly & si .
    Come a gp on your home ground for instance . we all arrive & there is a thick fog . You can just about make a 55 yard target out with the naked eye . That fog lingers to the same degree all day . Everyone struggles to range the targets but they all manage to shoot the course ........ a person that openly admits to having shot the course before & also admits knowing the range of every target on the course , That person wins the shoot by a margin of ( for instance ) 4 clear shots ? To me theres a bit more than " home advantage " involved under those circumstances , Wouldnt you agree ?


    With regards to making sure that no targets are over range...... what we do is . a couple of members who dont shoot any open shoots are asked to go round & check any targets that i think maybe near the limit & they would never divulge any information to anyone .If any are found to be illegal , they move the target or the firing line to suit .

    Cheers , calps
     
  13. strangefroot

    strangefroot Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    syorks
    Ok then , holly & si .
    Come a gp on your home ground for instance . we all arrive & there is a thick fog . You can just about make a 55 yard target out with the naked eye . That fog lingers to the same degree all day . Everyone struggles to range the targets but they all manage to shoot the course ........ a person that openly admits to having shot the course before & also admits knowing the range of every target on the course , That person wins the shoot by a margin of ( for instance ) 4 clear shots ? To me theres a bit more than " home advantage " involved under those circumstances , Wouldnt you agree ?


    With regards to making sure that no targets are over range...... what we do is . a couple of members who dont shoot any open shoots are asked to go round & check any targets that i think maybe near the limit & they would never divulge any information to anyone .If any are found to be illegal , they move the target or the firing line to suit .

    Cheers , calps
     
  14. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,059
    Location:
    Ardboe, Co.Tyrone.
    Club:
    Back Hill Ballistics; DFTC; Nelson FTC
    That's twice now Calps, you going senile?
     
  15. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,577
    Location:
    Skewen
    Club:
    Avon Hawks, Tondu, Oaktree
    I'll reply to this one, Holly can have the other!

    Well i cant really imagine the conditions as i have never seen them as such at Tondu, but i will try. My first move would be to move the tartgets in so they could be range found by all?
    I knew all the ranges in 2010 and 2008. It did not help me win, by some margin.
    Given a new shooter can turn up with top range finding kit (big nikkko £400 2nd hand) i think that range finding is becoming less of an issue at gp level. Its rare to see many misses from the better shooters high or low?
    The tronble is calps our ground is not that big so we cant avoid shooting it but hopefully going back to your original post there will be enough new stuff there to keep everyone on their toes, but as i said its the wind that will be the decider as it was in 2010.
     
  16. ellis d

    ellis d Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    942
    Location:
    Leicester
    Club:
    Castle ftc
    Even if i had known all the distance's at nelson that day, i still wouldn't have hit oat, the wind at nelson is stranger than simon evans, :)
     
  17. DaveRobinson

    DaveRobinson NEFTA Chairman

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,118
    Location:
    Killamarsh
    Club:
    Anston
    I know of what mr c speaks of i have been to shoots and shot with people who have made comments like "i normaly hit that target" and you cant help notice that the firing line path has a deep rut of eroded soil where the firing line has been for 18 months..
    It is down to the hard work of course constructors that we all get to enjoy the day out be it for goood or bad results but i feel when i have shot some courses cant help but think some more imagination could have gone into the course. The courses i usualy do well on are what most people consider a nightmare i.e differnt angles lanes here there and everywherek, theese courses make me think about the targets more.. The courses i suffer on are the ones where there are 2 targets in a straight line and the next lane is to the left 4 yds away and another 2 targets in a straight line because i rely on the copying what i did on the last lane. I know when ive shot well on a good course because im mentaly exhausted..
    I think that with no matter how little ground you have a little imagination can work wonders. I think this is what mr c is trying to get accross that with a bit of effort the course can be changed from the norm for big events to something that will allow everyone to present a score based on their shooting abilities those been
    Range finding skills
    Wind Judgment Skills
    Good technique
     
  18. steg

    steg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    372
    Location:
    Mirfield
    Club:
    Emley Moor
    There's many who do hope so...

    ps i agree with Andy...here at Emly we DO NOT shoot the course or range find before a comp'...Trev would be so upset he'd never sell you a raffle ticket again....(wheres my Bushnell R/F...)
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  19. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,577
    Location:
    Skewen
    Club:
    Avon Hawks, Tondu, Oaktree
    I think or at least hope you will like Tondu then this year Dave.

    I thaught it was a nightmare last week lol:D
     
  20. holly

    holly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,849
    Location:
    ISLE OF WIGHT
    Club:
    carisbrooke rangers
    What ?

    What do you mean " Going " senile ??? HOLLY:):D
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice