UKSARC Question

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by scutter, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    I have been thinking of coming to one of the UKSARC shoots.

    Now, I shoot a Steyr and I have been told that I have to remove the hamster and also drop the adjustable cheek piece to comply with the rules.

    The thing is though I have been told that custom stocks with built up cheek pieces and extra deep for ends are legal and are very popular in this series.

    So, am i correct in thinking that a gun with a hamster that measures 130mm from barrel to bottom of hamster is illegal, but a gun with a aftermarket stock that measures 130mm from barrel to bottom of stock is legal?

    Or is it only unmodified rifles with factory stocks?

    many thanks

    Gary
     
  2. Cosford

    Cosford New Member

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    Gary

    My understanding is for standard factory rifle and stock for the main class, with non-standard being used in the Target class .the idea being to bring the sport back into the hands and wallets of the most but you will need to wait for Johnny or Gerry to give you the definitive answer
     
  3. Gerry

    Gerry Member

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    Gary , we would welcome you at one of the SARC shoots .

    You do not have to do any thing to your rifle .

    Just simply enter the competition in the Target Rifle class , simple .

    However if you wish , you can shoot sporting class , but then we want the shooters to enter in the spirit of the competition .

    Buy a standard sporting stock if you want to use your "Race" gun .

    Several of the regular shooters shot in UK SARC comps last year using their normal guns , in the Target class , but have since bought themselves standard wooden "sporting rifle " stocks .

    So , its entirely up to you .

    I suggest you join us , use the rifle you normally use in comps , shoot in the Target Rifle class & see how it all goes !


    Pretty much every thing you need to know is on the web site , feel free to browse .

    http://www.uksarc.org.uk/
     
  4. Chris Coombes

    Chris Coombes The specialist

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    So Gary put your F1 engine into a Skoda body and your in.:D LOL
     
  5. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Best just to turn up and get stuck in Gary, if you want to do sporting I'll happily lend you one of my sporting guns or you can gun share with me if you like.:)
     
  6. Gerry

    Gerry Member

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    Ryan , that is very nice of you to offer to lend a rifle .

    As I said , Gary can just shoot what ever he likes , its a fun sport , and I'm sure he'll enjoy it !

    There are enough classes to make it as fair as possible for all folk to shoot what ever they have . :)
     
  7. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    Thank you Ryan, but I have plenty of rifles:D:D

    If I attend, I will shoot in the main class which is sporting, the question that I want answered is what stock to use.

    I have a S400 with two stocks, one is the factory stock and the other is an aftermarket stock, The stock does not have an adjustable cheek piece or hamster, but the cheek piece is higher then a normal stock and the for end is deeper.

    Can this be used in sporter class?
     
  8. poison dwarf

    poison dwarf BANNED

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    Something like the cs800 with high cheek peice is fine as long as you dont have adjustable ft style butt hook etc attached
     
  9. Gerry

    Gerry Member

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    Gary , we have allowed these type of stocks .

    The over riding factor has been to look at the rifle , is iit within the "Spirit of the Sport" ?

    If its clear the owner has taken the wee wee & had special stock made to circumvent it , organisers may deem the rifle to be a "Target" rifle .

    However we are in consultation with some senior shooters & organisers to write some rules with numbers , to clear up this matter .

    When we wrote the rules we felt that this issue may crop up in the future .

    Because the sport was aimed at the grass roots we decided to keep it as simple as possible .

    However , as with every thing , iit evolves , so it will be with SARC .

    At this discretion all these issues are at the organisers discretion , but will be clearly defined shortly .
     
  10. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    You can always pm Jerry, when I put my second Hw100 together the stock maker didn't do exactly what I wanted, so I wasn't sure and double checked with the man in charge. Next ones Furnace Mill who do a mega breakfast!
     
  11. Tye

    Tye Shabba

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    It's great fun good to see Hft guys giving it a blast. Even a few FT guys having a guy when it's at The Greyhound. Hope Johnny is doing ok.
     
  12. cliveo

    cliveo Member

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    hi, i have shot with my son every round of the sarc and enjoyed them immensely. cannot recall seeing any rifles with extra deep fore ends or high cheek pieces on custom stocks being used.
    the target rifle lads shoot their usual set ups in their own class alongside the sporting class. what i have noticed is target rifle shooters from last year turning up with off the shelf sporting rifles to join in with the sporting class.
    if there was any "custom stocks" last Sunday they were lost to me amongst the bog standard off the shelf BSA. Weihrauch, Daystate, Airarms rifles etc.
    just a thought Gerry, in the results might it be an idea to list what rifles were being shot along side peoples names as this info is on the scorecards ?

    cheers

    clive
     
  13. Gerry

    Gerry Member

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    Clive , thanks for your comment .

    I think in the future we can list rifle / scope combos , more for interest than any thing .

    But yes , all the organisers are going to be in conference shortly to discuss the issue of custom stocks , predominantly to stop shooters having them made with huge drops in the fore end , to replicate a hamster .

    The whole idea was that it be a " Sporting Rifle " class , very few hunting / sporting rifles come out of the factories with huge drop down front ends & cheek pieces shaped to a specific jaw line .

    We'll try to make the rules as fair as possible to all concerned , also try to avoid an equipment race , forcing shooters to spend a fortune on a special rule bender stock to remain in the game .

    That was the whole exercise , "grass roots" competition using off the shelf equipment .
     
  14. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    I keep popping on the USARC website and having a look around and I'll no doubt shoot some at some point.

    I think it's a great idea and hope it gathers even more momentum. It is difficult for you to try and get a minimum set of rules that will cover all instances and keep it basic and attractive to all.

    I started shooting HFT when it first started and I remember then most people shot basic off the shelf kit. I remember the local FT guys saying it will become FT2 with the kit race kicking in and before long people would be using top of the range target rifles and scopes. That has happened but it has still kept it's own identity re no sitting and no scope twiddling.

    I know you will have discussed all this but one of the problems of trying to make it 'off the shelf standard' is that that in itself will benefit some and penalise others. Shooters aren't standard off the shelf sizes and shapes ... hence the adjustable target styles I suppose. I suppose if you say that the cheek can be so high in respect to the action or the front end can be so deep in respect to the bore then it gives some room for body shapes ... but that gets you back to Gary's original question of what's the difference between an adjustable xxxmm or a solid wooden xxxmm. Sooner you than me.:D

    Good luck with it thou and I hope that the kit race doesn't take it away from what it was intended for.
     
  15. Dazzzle

    Dazzzle New Member

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    I think the overwhelming majority of people went with the spirit of the competition and really enjoyed themselves on Sunday, I know I did.
    Aftermarket stocks obviously do cater for bodyshapes and it would require a real custom made to measure fit to breach the spirit of the rules, now if Gerry can lengthen my arms by a couple of inches it would make my life easier:D
    On a personal note I would like to thank the organisers for allowing me ,if the need arose, to sit on my kneeler due to my disability
     
  16. XTX

    XTX XTX Air

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    The question of custom stocks came up when SARC first started, I was told custom stocks were allowed but if they had adjustable cheek pieces or butt pads etc they should be put in the "neutral" position.

    In my head a well made custom stock (with no adjustable bits on it) is no different to a target stock that has been set up for you because both will fit you well, one is fine for sporting class and the other has to be in the target class :eek:o

    The other thing to bear in mind is some of us are left handed and there are not many left hand friendly rifles/stocks out there so a custom/customised stock is sometimes the only option for us. A blanket ban on custom/customised stocks would mean that some people would not be able to compete in the open class with their existing rifles, even if the custom stock does not have a deep fore end etc. Every one of my stocks (I have a lot of of rifles) has been modified in some way or another to make it more left hand friendly :rolleyes:

    I think the only way around it is to set maximum heights/depths/lengths of key areas like the hamster/fore end, length of pull and cheek piece etc.
    To throw a spanner in the works, some off the shelf rifles are being sold with deeper fore ends, higher cheek pieces and better butt pads. Manufacturers are waking up to the fact that 99% of people fit scopes to their rifles, selling a stock that is designed for open sights is not a good idea (sadly some still sell rifles with the open sight mentality even though there is no way of fitting open sights to their rifles :confused: )

    Either way have fun deciding on the rules :eek:
     
  17. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    It's an absolute minefield Darrin, I had a compare yesterday and the only standard stock I have is actually the same depth as the custom stocks on my hunting guns, they all have the same butt pads as well. I don't think there's an issue with the rules as they stand, just keep the kit within the spirit of the competition and crack on. There were a few rifles knocking about on Sunday with deep fore ends and big cheek pieces and if it's deemed they're not in the spirit it's nothing a quiet word about moving class or a power file won't solve. ;)
     
  18. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    This is the thing that I can not understand. I am all for any type of shooting and the idea of a back to basics series is a good one.

    The thing is though, unlike some shooters, I do not have hundreds of pounds to spend on aftermarket stocks to give me a high cheek piece and a deep for end. What I have is an old piece of fence post clamped to the bottom of my gun and a cheek piece that is built up with ispom p38

    This apparently is illegal and would have to be removed, however, an aftermarket stock is fine and this in my opinion is elitist. (If you have lots of money, then you can have an advantage)

    From what I can see of the rules, there are no pegs, so you have to shoot from a fist, so a deep forend is essential for stability and as we all know, non of us would take a shot at an animal, if we weren't stable.

    So may I suggest an idea, follow that UKAHFT rule and just have a stock depth, 150mm from center of barrel to the bottom of the stock or hamster. This way shooters who can not afford a GinB or Paul Wilson will not be disadvantaged.

    Also, if shooters have a adjustable cheek piece, let them use it. why on earth would you want a shooter to use a gun to simulate hunting quarry that was not set up for optimum performance.

    Just my opinion.

    Gary
     
  19. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Gary until you've tried it, keep your mind open. If you look at the top 4 scores I can say for a fact we were all using bog standard stocks exactly as they left the factory, one was even a twanger!:eek: If you're really serious about coming along and supporting another series, put your standard stock on your 400 or one of your other guns and join in. What reaction would this have if it were FT shooters criticising or offering opinions on UKAHFT rules?

    In my opinion having actually tried SARC shoots a few times, it works really well as it is, there's been lots of chinese whispers going around about who's shooting what and who's having stocks made by who. The only person I saw with a GINB stock scored 33, I saw one other home made stock with a big cheek piece and deep fore end, they scored 46. What I saw mostly was a bunch of folk having a giggle and taking the **** as you would expect at any shoot. :)
     
  20. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    Ryan, my mind is fully open, but I am trying to understand what is legal and what is not. There is no point in doing a 300 mile round trip to go to a shoot and be unprepared or disadvantaged.

    I am planning to shoot the Sarc round at the Greyhound and I hope the rules will be clarified by then.

    With regard to offering an opinion, Gerry has said that there is to be a discussion about the rules and I offered a simple solution. The other solution could be 1 class for standard off the shelf unmolested sporter rifles and another class for anything else.

    Many shooters criticise the UKAHFT and some of these criticisms have been taken on board an some have not, but I am sure all were listened too. Only a megalomaniac who wanted to micro manage everything would refuse to listen to constructive criticism.

    I am sure Sarc will go from strength to strength, I just think the rules need tightening up a bit and this will stop all of the complaints I have heard.

    See you all at the Greyhound
     

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