UKAHFT Rule question

Discussion in 'UKAHFT Questions and Answers' started by Ceathreamhnan, Apr 9, 2012.

  1. Ceathreamhnan

    Ceathreamhnan WHFTA Champion 2013

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    If the firing line blue string is stretched forward to a peg so that it forms a triangle with the point facing out to the target, and there is an obstruction (like a root or stump) a couple of feet behind the peg that makes it awkward to lie prone in a straight line, is it permissible to lie sideways on, so that your feet stick out over the firing line (the side of the triangle)? Your trigger finger would still be behind the peg, as per the 2012 rules. The firing line would be flat on the ground, so you wouldn't be moving it.

    The rule mentioned is the only thing I can find relating to this in the 2012 Format or Rules. I had a situation like this the other day and someone remarked on it, but can't find anything.
     
  2. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    This is a tricky one....... in your example there would be no reason you couldn't have part of your body across the firing line if as you say the trigger is behind the line, this is often required when targets are on a corner.

    However we would draw the line if people were doing it on a straight firing line or it the body or feet were in front of the barrel.
     
  3. Ceathreamhnan

    Ceathreamhnan WHFTA Champion 2013

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    Thanks, that's good enough for me. :)
     
  4. regsie

    regsie Member

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    Sorry to ask another question but yesterday on a straight firing line I was asked
    "is it ok for my foot an leg to be over the line whilst I take this kneeler" ?
    I was not 100% sure I have seen people do this but never read it is allowable in any rules. Clearly the trigger finger was not over the firing line but the safety rules ask people not to go over the firing line.
    Be nice to clear this up also.
    Cheers
     
  5. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    I can't see a problem with that as your trigger is behind the line, the safety rules are really talking about people walking over the firing line
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  6. 1963malc

    1963malc Member

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    Can I ask for a bit of clarification on the flexibility of positions. At the NEFTA Round 1 on Sunday, there was a shot to be taken over a low log with the ground sloping. Some may have taken it prone (I couldn't) or standing, but for those that chose to take the shot kneeling, should the body still be limited to 3 points of contact with the ground, even though you could take other support from the log?
     
  7. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    Hi Malc,

    The NEFTA Hunter is not run to UKAHFT rules

    If you are talking about Target 8 which was a Dinosaur then I couldn't take that prone either.
     
  8. 1963malc

    1963malc Member

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    Yes, that was the one. I'll have a look at the NEFTA site rules. Thanks.
     
  9. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    I doubt the rules will help you as they are fairly basic & can't ever cover every eventuality.

    If the shoot had been to UKAHFT rules then you would have needed to be able to shoot that target prone but normally any shot taken kneeling must still be taken from a legal 3 point position, however the shot in question on Sunday would have been given a certain amount of leeway due to the nature of the slope & fallen tree, using both knees would probably have been allowed but certainly any part of the buttocks touching the floor would be classed as illegal........remember I'm only talking UKAHFT here
     
  10. BigBluey

    BigBluey New Member

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    .

    I am probably gonna get shot down for this, but during a safety brief it clearly states no person is to cross the firing line except an approved/official marshall. Obviously the marshall will cross the line only after a cease fire has been called.
    So are we now saying its ok to partially cross the line?
    If this is going to be allowed, can the marshalls have some guidelines as this will be another rule that will be pushed to its max.
     
  11. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    As I've already explained the "Crossing the firing line" is talking about walking across the firing line onto a live range, it is not talking about someone having a foot over the line whilst taking a stander/kneeler or a leg over the line whilst taking a prone shot.

    If you want to be anal about it then if the firing line goes to the peg everyone holding the peg is over the firing line with their fingers....sometimes we need to use a bit of common sense really
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  12. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    If any marshal is confused about this then we will happily explain it although I doubt there is a marshal out there who has never had some part of their body over the line on a shot so I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from......are you suggesting a foot or leg over the line is dangerous whilst taking a shot ?
     
  13. BigBluey

    BigBluey New Member

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    Nice reply thanks

    Not being anal Pete, but if that what you think thats your view.
    and on the second point
    I have never crossed the line with anything except my fingers round the post. So that 1 marshall.
    You know as well as I do people will push the rules past the limit, and moan like hell when they get pulled up over it. So a guideline will make it clearer.
    Personally i get pissed of with some shooters arguing over the rules whilst marshalling. Anything to stop this would be a good thing.
     
  14. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    There's no suggestion of people pushing the rules to get an advantage in this case, the rules are quite clear about the trigger being behind the line/peg. If as a marshal you feel someone is shooting dangerously then please point it out to them but a foot over the line has always & will always be allowed.

    The next time you are marshalling have a look for instance how many shooters have part of the foot over the line on a kneeling or standing shot.
     
  15. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    The next time you are shooting get someone to take a picture from the side on a few standing shots.:rolleyes:

    Here's an example for you of a standing shot at Wendover, not sure how anyone could use the support & not have their arms over the firing line, this is quite legal as long as the trigger is behind the line.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/101333354091879064421/Wendover2012?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCIH5odOrj8ittAE&feat=directlink#5724226213952713090
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  16. neilL

    neilL New Member

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    Hi

    Barrel over the line, trigger behind it pretty much defines where the dangerous bits go (and lets not start arguing as to where the barrel ends and a silencer/muzzle-break/flashy bling starts or stops).
    I now shoot FT and the front foot can be over the line these days following a sensible rule adjustment i.e. barrel/trigger as above.

    I have shot HFT courses where despite my being in the "safe" position (prone, on peg, etc) I have had to warn a shooter in the next lane that my gun was rather close to his head/ears with us both being in the right positions - not an ideal course layout on that day :) Setters need to consider the lanes either side of the one they are banging the pegs in for.

    Sounds like it is all about attitude - think safe, be aware of what and who is around you and when in doubt shout "Marshall!".

    Cheers
    Neil
     
  17. Tench

    Tench WHFTA World Champion 2016.

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    Thats how i see it Neil, the rules are there for everyones safety, the emphasis is on people being aware of their own actions and of those around us and looking out for each other, at the same time making sure your shooting position complies (trigger behind the line etc) and is above all safe for yourself and everyone else in the vicinity. Keeping it simple and applying common sense is the best way, if in doubt in HFT the shout is "PETE!!"

    Simon.
     
  18. shaun eustace

    shaun eustace New Member

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    Common Sense

    Surely the rule is there to stop someone being shot? If a foot/leg/elbow goes over by necessatity of the target position then as long as said appendage is not in immediate danger of being mortally wounded!!
     
  19. Steve Bowers

    Steve Bowers Member

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    Firing line

    Hi just a thought, looking at the picture you posted the shooters triger is very close to crossing the shooting line.
    On a peg that uses a tree of that size would it not be better to take the rope round the front of the tree so that all the tree is behind the firing line.

    Steve
     
  20. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    As long as the trigger is behind the line the shot is legal.

    I'm not sure the shot would have been better with the firing line at the front of the tree ? it would have been easier but that's not really the point of the sport, the idea is to find the best position to shoot the target whilst staying legal. Some firing lines were on the front of the tree but this one wasn't :D
     

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