Tx200

Discussion in 'Piston & Spring' started by cars68, Apr 10, 2018.

  1. cars68

    cars68 Member

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    Hi all.
    Please can i pick your brains.....
    I have been shooting competition now for a number of years. Hft. Nationals.. southern hunters. Sihft.
    My question is.. i have a tx200. On the plink range im pellet on pellet at 30y and very happy with my groups out to 45y so im quite impressed with it.... but soon as i get it on our woods course. I can not hit a thing. It feels like im shooting a different tx !!!!! Nothing has moved. !!! Holding it the same way. Same pellets. Same scope.
    So frustrating.
    Any ideas. ?????
    Regards
    Graeme
     
  2. MickyFinn

    MickyFinn I❤HFT

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    Buy a hw97 :p;):D
     
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  3. cars68

    cars68 Member

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    Thanks mick. Have thought about it. !!!!!!
     
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  4. Cooper_dan

    Cooper_dan Well-Known Member

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    Don't listen to Mick. Buy a Weihrauch and you'll spend the whole time chasing shifting POI and a wandering zero :p

    When you say on the plinking range, is this bench rested? Shooting from a bench and shooting prone will very often cause a shift in POI due to the massive change in your body position and the way your head sits on the stock in relation to the scope and the rest of your body. Even if you think you are holding the gun in the same way, you more than likely wont be
     
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  5. imorik

    imorik Member

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    On the plinking range you know the distances..................different on the course.
     
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  6. tillygti6

    tillygti6 Tilly's gun stocks

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    you could ask chilly for some tips?
     
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  7. cars68

    cars68 Member

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    Dont be silly !!!! Lol
    When im on plink im prone. Same as when im shooting the woods course
    I never set my gun up on the bench. Always prone.
    I do know the course well.
    I shoot this course quite regularly.
    Graeme
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  8. Bensile

    Bensile Well-Known Member

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    I have exactly the same issue and I’m thinking it’s down to the ground and arm position. If I zero as best as I can kneeling and standing and shoot the course that way it’s okay. As soon as I go prone it’s all over. Then Glenn Bow borrowed and could not miss.

    Anyway it’s now on loan permanently so I’ll not have this issue again.

    I do however suggest just testing the theory kneeling in you can.

    Good luck
     
  9. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Might be down to how fast you are shooting on the plink vs the competition. When the piston seals heat up they tend to swell causing power to drop, when they cool they shrink and the friction loss means power goes up. This can lead to a change in POI. See how it is with you shooting very slowly, same as competition, it might be a real nause but it will let you know if this is a possible issue. Let the rifle show you where it's shooting rather than being tempted to fire another shot of to prove the previous one was a flier etc.
     
  10. biwain

    biwain Tree bark and paint chipper Champion

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    I have the same problem.

    I call it "triggeritis" and can't release the trigger so evey shot goes to the right (because I'm right handed).
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  11. cars68

    cars68 Member

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    1st... sorry if i put this in the wrong part of the forum. I do apologise.
    Thanks for your input rob. Will take that on board.
    Regards
    GRAEME
     
  12. Cooper_dan

    Cooper_dan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure about this for a standard TX with the Air Arms seal. I've done very quick 30 shot strings over the chrono with the only pause being to write the velocity down and never had the power noticeably dropping off through the string. Maybe 2 or 3 fps average at most. Not enough to make a difference. Same with the zeroing range vs going round the course. I shoot fairly rapidly on the zero range and POI doesn't shift when I get to the course.
    A highly tuned action or o-ring seal could be different, out of my depth on that one.

    Triggeritis is real. And it cost me 3 points on the trot last Sunday.
    I also find that on the zero range I am in a Zen like state of calm and tranquility and the pellets go exactly where I want. As soon as I get to the first peg on the course heart rate goes up, shoulders tense up and my trigger finger turns into a binary switch that I've got no control over
     
  13. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    I've seen it myself, proven it in and out of the gun, and seen others see it, with the AA seal and other seals. In extreme's like Portugal it was enough to see 100fps difference between the cold foggy morning that was perhaps 10-15 degrees to 40 degrees in the direct sun.

    You may not see it early on a chrono. I've chatted to Jim about this and he says that although there may be nothing seen in the chrono the piston starts it's compression in a different part/time in the stroke and thus changes the recoil reaction.
     
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  14. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Really no problem :) Just moved it so it was somewhere where it might not get so buried :)
     
  15. Cooper_dan

    Cooper_dan Well-Known Member

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    The Portugal example is an extreme one though. In the UK going from the plinking range to going round the course you won't see that surely!

    I shoot quickly on the zero range and have never had the poi shift once I get onto the course and start shooting slowly. Im always happy to be proven wrong but I've just never seen it. I shoot 2 or 3 times a week with at least one HFT comp each week, sometimes 2, in all conditions.

    I would be very surprised if this was the issue. My money would be on body and head position (a lot of targets force you into different positions round the course which you can't replicate on the plinking range) or nerves/trigger release maybe
     
  16. Nomads HFT

    Nomads HFT Well-Known Member

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    Rob: Judging by the experiences of TX shooters at Nomads, the AA seal seems fairly immune to zero range/course POI shifts (we've yet to test large ambient temperature swings).

    The OP has problems on a woodland course. Woodland traditionally gets planted on land that's unsuitable for agriculture (usually too steep) and, if that's the case at Mile Oak, my suspicion would be on shots being angled up/down, and the shooter lying on sloping ground, causing small changes in muscle tension and rifle hold, and moving the POI.
     
  17. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    ^^^^ This

    I'm certain that 80-90% of alleged odd behaviour of springers such as zero shift or inability to group, is due to this, plus changes in clothing. Even just the same clothing bunching up differently in the shoulder.l

    "My springer isn't hold sensitive". Well, yes it is, it's a springer. It's probably just less sensitive than others, but it still does the same kind of thing. My 14.5lb 97K in FT stock with big scope, butt hook etc is probably the least hold sensitive one I've owned but I can still inexplicably miss with it, when I 'm sure everything is the same as the last target.
     
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  18. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    We can do the tin test but I seem to remember that was the seal we had in when I quoted those figures way back.
     
  19. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm pretty much convinced it's not. :) I'm pretty much convinced it's the opposite.

    I've been able to do silly tight groups with a springer and after a while despite extreme OCD concentration on everything down to event the position of a trigger finger to the mm, the gun will shoot vertical line groups. Despite still doing single hole groups it can be 20mm off at 25yds. Get it cool again, back on zero. It's repeatable and not only that it's testable.

    If you want to see how your gun shoots in competition you have to simulate competition, and not just the bits you like ;)
     
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  20. Cooper_dan

    Cooper_dan Well-Known Member

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    100% agree. I know I suffer with this, to the point where I am starting to develop a stretching and warm-up routine to go through on the morning of a shoot. And a checklist of positional mistakes to run through when I'm on the mat.

    I won't go through everything I'm doing, but here's one thing to watch out for. Next time you go around an HFT course, pay attention to what your left shoulder (for right handers and vice versa) is doing, and compare it between lanes. You are looking for clues like a shrugging motion (bringing shoulder towards your ear) or a slumping motion (dropping shoulder towards the ground) and the amount of tension each one brings. This is often dictated by the elbow position so watch that too. See how this changes between flat lanes, and those elevated up or down, or ones where you have to hold further up or further down the peg than usual.
    I think a lot of people would be surprised by how much change there is in just this one joint. Try it, then tell me your position is the same every lane, because I know mine isn't!
     
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