Trigger on the Walther lgv

Discussion in 'Walther' started by locodriver65, Dec 15, 2014.

  1. locodriver65

    locodriver65 New Member

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    Hi Guys,
    I am new to field target shooting, I am having a lot of fun shooting my old HW95 in .22
    However I have purchased a new Walther LGV rifle in .177.
    The trigger in the instruction book is not the same as the trigger on my rifle. Mine has three grub screws (uk) model.
    Could some one advise me on the best method od setting this trigger up. I have used the rifle once last Sunday morning and shot about 200 pellets. The rifle seems very good but I did have a small problem, Once or twice the gun did not fire when the trigger was pulled, I slipped the safety on and off and it did fire. One of the others shooters had the same problem with his rifle, he said a small trigger adjustment was required. The Rifle was cocking OK. And shooting very small groups out to 55 yards..
    Any advice would be great.

    Regards

    Paul
     
  2. Gary Martin

    Gary Martin sultans of spring

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    go to forum upper left hand side of home page. go down to equipment reviews, first page Brian Samson did a review on LGV. post title LGV compitition ultra.
     
  3. locodriver65

    locodriver65 New Member

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    Walther lgv trigger

    Hi Gary,
    Thanks for the info. Lots of advice and opinion on this rifle.
    I will have to read it again to work out how the trigger was set up.

    Regards

    Paul
     
  4. locodriver65

    locodriver65 New Member

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    Trigger lgv walther

    Hi guys,
    I have spent some time this afternoon adjusting the three screws on the walther.
    At one point I seemed to have a reasonable setup. First stage, a sort of second stage and then the gun shooting.
    I am not sure how long or what the second stage should feel like. Also at one point I had quite a long first stage with no second stage before the rifle fired.

    More adjustments required. Also some help would go a long way. I have looked at the pictures of the trigger components and the screw adjustments but can't get my head around it yet.

    Regards


    Paul
     
  5. matt goodson

    matt goodson New Member

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    My lgv would sometimes not fire, and reseting the safety didnt always work, I'd have to recock the rifle to make it fire again.
    I fixed it by putting a few drops of oil in the trigger unit. Its not gone wrong since.

    I've never adjusted the trigger btw.
     
  6. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    View of trigger components - trigger uncocked.

    The forward screw in the trigger blade can be screwed inwards to reduce length of first stage.

    In doing so the rear screw in blade will need to be adjusted to return second stage to a crisp felt point. i.e. it must touch the lower sear before the sears disengage.

    WARNING - shortening first stage too much will circumvent the safety mechanism allowing the rifle to fire when the safety catch is in the on position!

    Note the component labelled safety intercept bar and corresponding notch on trigger blade. The safety is set in the safe position, the trigger blade can move a fair amount before being blocked by the intercept bar. It is possible to set the trigger to fire within that amount of travel.
     
  7. locodriver65

    locodriver65 New Member

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    Walther LGV trigger

    Hi Dale,
    Thanks for the picture of the workings inside the trigger housing.

    I am not sure what the 2nd trigger screw is doing. It would seem to me that once the first stage movement of the trigger blade screw touches the lower sear, the trigger stops. Further pull on the trigger starts to lift the lower sear. It will do this because of the position of its pivot point. Adjusting the second screw until it touches the lower sear is only doing what the first screw is doing. So I don't understand the principle yet.

    As I said I have not got my head around the design yet.

    Regards and thanks for your help,

    Paul

    Ps Is there a spring missing off the front of the trigger?
     
  8. locodriver65

    locodriver65 New Member

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    Trigger update

    Hi Dale,
    The way the trigger feels now after quite a bit of adjustment,
    1 The trigger moves during the first stage then stops. 4 or 5 mm
    2 When further pressure is applied it moves a bit more, if let go at this point goes back to the start as though it resets.
    3 with the trigger at the number 2 position a fraction more pressure fires the rifle.

    Safety works as it should and the rifle cocks OK.

    Is This what is meant by a two stage trigger set up?

    Regards

    Paul
     
  9. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    When the trigger is cocked, the first stage screw acts to control the totaal engagement there is between the middle and lower sears.

    When the trigger is pulled the first stage screw acts on the lower sear, steadily reducing the sear engagement as the lower sear rotates around its axis pin.

    Now if the second stage screw is wound too far out, the sears will disengage before it makes contact with the lower sear, so the gun will fire without any feel of the second stage.

    On the other hand, if the the second stage screw is wound to far in, it contacts the lower sear whilst there is still a lot of engagement between the lower and middle sears. The contact of the second stage screw will be distinctly felt. Further pressure on the trigger will give a creepy release as the sear contact is reduced until they disengage.

    The trick is to adjust the second stage screw so it contacts the lower sear just as the engagement reaches a 'knife edge' point. This gives the distinct feel of the second stage and further pressure will fire the gun but without detectable movement of the sears.

    Hopefully that description makes some sense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  10. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Have you figured out a repeatable procedure you could use for setting the trigger 'blind' yet Dale?

    It's a shame because if set up well the trigger is really nice (and I'm a trigger tart!), but getting it to that point is a nightmare. I could only do it by taking the trigger apart and getting it close to how I wanted it, then making final adjustments with it back together again.

    Solware have made a video on setting the trigger, but it makes no sense to me :confused: and I have no idea if using the method in the video gives a trigger that I would be happy with.
     
  11. rich

    rich Active Member

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    Could you back off the first stage fully, then adjust the second stage screw so that the let-off point was where you wanted it, then progressively bring the first stage screw back in? If you go too far then you can just back off a tad again.
     
  12. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    Hi Brian,

    Apologies for only replying now but I haven't visited the forum much lately and hadn't seen your question.

    To be honest I haven't given much thought to a 'blind' method of setting the trigger.

    So far I have made the major settings with it opened up then reassembling and fine tuning it. The trick is to not make big adjustments just work a little at a time so you stay close to the major settings to ensure reliability of cocking / correct safety catch function - this latter, you can shortcut the safety so the rifle will fire with it applied if you try for too short a first stage - BEWARE!!

    Biggest issues I find with the factory trigger blade is the second stage screw is too far from the first stage adjuster and as a result loses leverage meaning you can't set the trigger as fine as it could otherwise go.

    Also the screws are just too damned loose in the threaded holes to retain the settings in the long term.

    I found I could cure this by adding small M3 grub screws of about 3mm length over the adjusting screws to lock the adjustment - much as Daystate did on the adjuster screws in the Hunstman FTR Mk1/2 pseudo two stage trigger unit.

    I might get round to making a custom trigger blade to address these points at some stage. I can see how to get round the safety catch issue and should be able to get a lighter release as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  13. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Yeah, that was the only way I could get the trigger set up - take it apart, get it close and then fine tune once it's back together.

    I don't mind that personally, but I know that most people don't like taking a gun apart in case they lose their warranty, so a blind procedure would really help them.

    Interesting idea about making the adjuster screws closer together. I was talking to Rowan engineering about their prototype LGV/LGU blade they've made and I had a couple of suggestions.. firstly I suggested maybe making the screws closer together (like the CD unit) but they said they couldn't see that it would make a difference. Do you think it would then? - they seemed quite convincing when they said they didn't think it would.

    The other suggestion I had was to add another grub screw at the front so you could adjust the amount of 1st stage travel.

    Also interesting about your idea of getting rid of that little spring at the front - they were telling me that getting the machining right for that part of the replacement trigger was a bit of a pain. If they could just remove it altogether that would make manufacturing a new blade much easier.
     
  14. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    Hi Brian,

    I absolutely do think that moving the second stage screw would make a difference.

    IMO it needs to be much closer to the first stage screw. This would bring it closer to the fulcrum point of the trigger blade and further from the same on the lower sear, which has got have a beneficial effect. Remember the first edition Air Arms Olympic triggers? They had a choice of heavy or light range weight settings by offering two screw holes for the second stage screw that altered its relationship to the trigger and sear fulcrums - later models did away with the 'heavy' screw hole, as just about everyone used the light range position only.

    The little spring at the front - the stupid spring as I call it - as I said all it does is keep the trigger blade feeling springy when the gun is uncocked, without it there is a tiny bit of free play, much like on the trigger of an S400 but not as prononunced. I believe AA added a similar stupid spring on that because some folk didn't like it floppy.

    I dont think a third screw is necessary, the issue is there is a recess directly below the trigger blade's pivot hole that allows the blade to almost over rotate forwards. Do not cut the recess and you won't have an excess first stage problem. What would remain without that recess can be amply adjusted using the 1st stage adjustment screw.

    See picture below.

    Damn - giving away all my ideas now! :D

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  15. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I only tried the Rowan blade in the gun so I don't know whether there's any scope to fill in that section in the front of the trigger slot, but it did still come forward far too much, which is why I suggested the extra grub screw in there.

    The blade they've made is set further back to and is adjustable for reach and blade angle. They did say they had another problem with it and that was because it was set back it made adjusting the rear trigger weight screw more difficult.

    I'm in two minds about the 2nd screw - I think what you're saying is that the benefit is that it would make the 2nd stage lighter, but I don't need it to be any lighter than it already is. My feeling is that moving it further from the lower sear fulcrum would mean that it would need to move further which might introduce some creep possibly?

    All good stuff though, I'm just glad that Rowan are going to put a replacement trigger into production - I love the Rowan blade on my TX :)
     
  16. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    Brian to address your points roughly in order.

    The recess can be filled in - just don't cut the damned thing in the first place.

    There is a guy in SA making custom blades for the LGU/LGV and he figured that one out. Unfortunately his website is playing up so I can't link to the photo of his product.

    Re: second stage screw, the benefit would be a lighter, crisper trigger pull, but with the better leverage this can then be achieved without winding the weight adjuster to its minimum which in turn would give greater trigger reliability, i.e. if the weight adjuster set too low the sears can 'catch' on the edge and you lose the sprung return on the first stage if you decide not to take the shot.

    Why would altering the position of the second stage screw on the blade induce creep? It is an adjusting screw - you adjust the flipping thing to remove any creep!!:)

    Remember this is a true two stage trigger - it relies on balancing the settings to get correct function.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  17. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I don't know :confused:

    I'm still leaning towards not changing something that doesn't currently cause a problem.

    2nd stage is plenty light enough for me, and having a blade that's set back further will make it lighter still. Never had the problem of sears catching or the trigger not resetting.

    My thinking is.. in the absence of a problem, I'm reluctant to suggest a solution.

    Anyhoo.. At the moment that's what Rowan are doing - leaving the grubs screws in the same position, unless someone can convince them they should move them. Personally, I can't put up a convincing argument to move them, so I'll leave that to someone else.
     
  18. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    It isn't about something not causing a problem - just as well Venom didn't take such a point of view as they might not have developed the Mach 1 trigger unit.

    My point is the trigger unit is a decent design, but can be made to be more than it is with a bit of careful thought in redesigning a part of it.
     

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