Target plate colours

Discussion in 'UKAHFT Official Forum' started by BigBluey, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. regsie

    regsie Member

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    We could tie a bell to the target just hope no morris dancers visit for the day:D
    Just joking couldn't resist:)

    In all seriousness Simon you have never mentioned this to me ever, this is the first I knew of this. if you want to try something like this you need to come and talk to me.
     
  2. sultano

    sultano Member

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    perhaps "bell target shooting " is the way to go :D
     
  3. BigBluey

    BigBluey New Member

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    As i am not a member of Cambridge Matt I wanted to see if it feasible first. Could you imageen the slating Cambridge would get if you done a colour change. You know as well as I do what some people are like.
    I wouldn't expect club I only visit to get involved at this stage even with the best of intentions
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  4. Sparky

    Sparky Ich dien Staff Member

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    Been watching this post and think its time i posted.

    Please don't take offence to this Simon as you know i like to talk straight, but if your eyesight is that bad and cannot drive any more are you safe to continue shooting not only with using a gun but getting around a course and general safety, plus this may affect the clubs insurance?

    Plus as you are not doing UKAHFT shoots and your only concern is as club level, which club do you shoot at now and have you approached them.

    As you mentioned if clubs were affiliated to UKAHFT they would have to follow us on colour of the targets, thats not quite the case, if they have a major comp then yes, but for club comps and practice comps they can use whatever colour they want.

    Pete
     
  5. sultano

    sultano Member

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    and there it is !
     
  6. TheWhiteDragon

    TheWhiteDragon Member

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    i must admit im really shocked at the responses on this thread..

    it was a simple question which a fair few people sympathised with.. yet some people immediately went on the offensive.. there united answer... give up..

    seriously im amazed at the attitude of some people, its not an unreasonable request..
    if anything it would open this sport to more people, surely more people is a good thing..

    though i would ask if these people follow there own statements in life..

    if you found it difficult to breath would you ask your doctor for help ?
    clearly the attitude of just give up means that you should simply stop breathing.. rather than ask for help ?

    i completely understand the health & safety concerns from pete, but surely that concern is negated by the person shooting with anyone with a vision impairment

    on another angle, how do we know who has a vision problem unless they step forward, surely stepping up and saying "i have difficulty" is a good thing, that way we as a shooting community can step up and help..
     
  7. Kenny-W

    Kenny-W New Member

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    It's a target discipline and it's origins are that if simulated targets that you often hunt!
    When I first started UKAHFT the rules were condensed and simple. In fact they could have fitted on Spsrky's *** packet (if he bought some I suppose)

    But now there's pages of them, it's almost had the life to an extent sucked out of it, mostly through wingers and pisstakers.

    By spraying in dayglo colours you'd actually be giving non-visually impaired an even greater advantage.
    But still think that once a plate is chipped, it's of no relevance what colour you started out with, if your vision is that impaired then I would have concerns being in the same post code let alone a wood / field. Now if it's just to make clarity of identifying easier then I stand by my comments, it gives non impaired shooters an advantage. We all have to admit defeat sometimes no matter how hard it pains us.

    If you had a powder burner and declared this impairment to your licensing department, would they still grant you permission to shoot outdoors?? I fear that a condition would be imposed or possibly even revoked...

    My thoughts, my opinions and not a dog but just done common sense...

    *** me next someone will want a risk assessment carried out before each pellet is loaded :)


    Regards

    Kenny W
     
  8. sultano

    sultano Member

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    i think most people in a lighthearted way were leaning towards what Sparky eventually said .
    it was obvious from the guys attitude that he was not going to take that answer from anyone other than one of the UKAHFT organisers .
     
  9. Tone

    Tone Active Member

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    Its credit to the UKAHFT organisers that they have kept the rules to just a few pages, there are a lot of people who want to change this or alter that and it takes some skill in negotiation and sometimes just having to say 'no' that has rules are kept to an absolute minimum.

    That is why UKAHFT is the success that it is.

    Tony
     
  10. LAity

    LAity Goed Geschoten

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    As hard as it is to read ( not just the spelling ) Kenny is spot on. One day we all have to hang up our guns and say enough is enough . If you can't see to shoot , sadly I think its time to knock it on the head. Harsh but honest...


    LAity
     
  11. BigBluey

    BigBluey New Member

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    .

    Thanks for the reply Pete. I would not want to jeopardize my safety let alone anyone else's safety, and if I ever thought I was I would hang up my rifles and take up tiddlywinks. There is a massive difference between not seeing safely walking round a wood (to which I would deem unsafe) and adjusting to contrast when trying to focus on an individual point. Everything we do uses differing parts of your eyes vision, something many people don't realise, until they have vision issues. I can happily walk down the street, go into shops, read books etc... but if a price ticket was on a shelf in a shadow I would struggle to read it, but move it into the light and its as clear as anything. No I cant drive because of my width of field vision, but I can read a number plate beyond the minimum distance. Am I blind NO (and being blind also doesn't mean you have no vision), am I sight impaired/partially sighted YES. Peoples perception is because I'm registered sight impaired/partially sighted I automatically cant see well enough to do things.

    I was planning on shooting the WHFTA this year and asking if I could be paired with a list of people who I would have asked if they minded assisting me if needed but it is clear that I will not be able to.
    As for not shooting the UKs the reason is due to this question being raised in the first place.

    I appreciate you cant please everyone all the time.
    As for the responses to this thread I feel disappointed to think some people have such blinkered views (well id expect little else from some of them to be honest ;) ), its mostly down to a lack of knowledge about visual issues, and its not your fault as its not something many people think about.

    So it boils down to: Could the face plates be painted in a luminous/dayglo yellow with a black kill zone?
    to enable myself and other sight impaired people to participate in the UKAHFT competitions.

    The obvious answer is, YES they can, its not a difficult thing to do, but clearly too many people are against it.
    Unfortunately its not practical for individual clubs to facilitate. I'm would hope a few clubs might try it out on some events, and if they do a massive well done, if you do please let me know and I'll try and come down with a few friends.

    Its obvious that this sport and those people with visual issues are not perceived compatible. And from some of the replies, seen as an unwanted issue.

    Looks like its just another thing I am set to loose, along side my vision, independence, well being and mobility, the sport I have loved for several years and the friends I have made.
    I so hope you all, and I man all, don't ever need some help with something later in life and are met with this kind of response.

    I would like to thank the UKAHFT and the many clubs I have shot at all the best. And to the majority of shooters that I have met thanks for the banter and laughs.

    On a final note:
    I hope that in time to come, you look back on this thread and realise that an opportunity was missed.

    Oh and to those that don't like the "discrimination word", discrimination can be totally unrecognised
    due to not realising an issue, but it can also be a lack of willing action to help solve a problem. Discrimination is not just about unfair treatment, its also down to recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.

    All the best
     
  12. blackscale

    blackscale Member

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    If i shot at a local Club with your condition (and the REALLY bright torch idea that nobody answered didn't work?) i would have some BIG numbers made in any colour that worked for me and ask the local Club if they wouldn't mind trying them. :):)

    With some thought they could be made to hang off of or spiked next to the majority of targets...
    Good luck to you :)
     
  13. shaun eustace

    shaun eustace Member

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    I think that if you had explained the exact nature of your sight problem in the first post or indeed at the first mention of safety issues, then you may have avoided some people posting their genuine concerns regarding safety.

    Several people have mentioned the luminous cards at the target and Cambridge have asked you to talk to them about a trial of some sort, all of which you have not seemingly considered and are sticking to your single line of different colour targets. People have explained the difficulty of getting cheap paint and the problem of having to prime etc which will naturally be a problem to some clubs.

    Unfortunately you have chosen to put this on a public forum as apposed to approaching the individual organisers privately and therefore you should expect that not everyone will sympathise with your cause and there may be some replies you do not like.

    The above post just reads " Woe is me" and will not be met with any sympathy....

    Sorry to loose a shooter from our sport but all the best in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  14. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Bluey

    Please take all my comments as constructive.

    You mentioned yourself that most people, with healthy eyes, take all aspects of their vision for granted. They, as you say, will think that you can either see or you need glasses to see or you can't see. Mention to most that someone has a vision issue that means they can't drive and they are saying that they can't see targets and I'm afraid the natural reaction will be ... well that sport isn't for them. You live with this so you know exactly what you can and can't do. To be fair fella, you didn't really give a lot of detail about how your vision causes problems up until your last post.

    I sincerely believe that you haven't done this for sympathy and you sincerely believe that any change won't just help you but many others. With all the respect in the world I do feel you could have done it slightly differently. Throughout the thread you seem to be only interested in one outcome ... the UKAHFT change the paint so all affilliated clubs have to do so. That's a lot of clubs and thousands of shooters around the world. I'm not saying it couldn't be done at that level and it may be an advantage to many shooters.

    To be fair to UKAHFT the first response you got from them was from Pete Dutton who asked you to trial it at your club and feed back to him.

    I honestly believe this would have been your best approach from the start. Maybe contacting Sparky/Dutt and mentioning that you have a sight issue and you feel others may have similar problems, and that you would try and do some trials at your local club and feed back to them. You could then have approached your local club, maybe with a backing note from UKAHFT saying that they were interested in the outcome of any trials to try and accommodate as much as possible any visually impaired UKAHFT shooters.

    It appears that people from your local club have posted on here and said that they will talk to you and try and sort something out. So you could speak to them and try various things out, including some suggestions on here ...

    Different paint ( incl. costs and ease of use etc )
    Large bright boards behind or next to target ( with numbers on )
    Maybe allowed to use a lamp to give more light in dull situations
    Shooting last in a group to give more time to view targets ( especially when falling down and being reset )
    etc etc

    You could have trialled these at your local club and then reported back to UKAHFT. You may have found that it didn't really help, or was too costly, or upset other shooters etc. You may have found that it helped you and others and had no negative affect on other shooters and cost and ease of use were no problem. You would then have been in a good position to ask UKAHFT to consider it as it would mean you and others would be able to attend Nationals and Worlds etc. You could get others from your club to add positive comments to a report that you gave to UKAHFT. UKAHFT may have then asked a large club like Quarry or Rivi to trial it.

    It's easy for me to make these comments and you are probably feeling a lot of frustration and anger about your condition at the moment, and understandably so, so it's easy to see how you have become stuck on one train of thought and can't see why others aren't seeing it your way.

    It's not too late to go down that route fella. I do sympathise as my own sight issues have been one of the reasons why I have had to look elsewhere other than HFT which I have loved and shot since it first started. I'm lucky I can still shoot it, just not like I used to or with the same enjoyment.

    I sincerely wish you well. Please speak to your local lads and see what you can do together to try and help you. I'm sure there are no bridges burned here matey. Internet comments can seem harsh without feeling but I'm sure all the guys who have posted and read the thread would love to help you, and others, any way they could.

    Take care

    Col
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  15. Sparky

    Sparky Ich dien Staff Member

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    Simon

    We do sympathise with people with different conditions but we can t always change things to suit.
    The one thing UKAHFT will do is listen but we won t just change something for the sake of it without testing it first and it does come across that you want UKAHFT and clubs to change now, well sorry this is not going to happen without thorough testing first.

    You still have not said what club you shoot at and have you approached them to try these things as although it may benefit you, it may also hinder 90% of the shooters, as I think it has been mentioned before, luminous/fluorescent paint may course major glare issues in bright sunlight etc plus how much paint comes off when shot as we have seen in the past with certain paints that after a few hits most of the paint comes off and you are just left with the metal.

    There is most likely some paint out there that would be ideal, but it won t be cheap or practical as it would be slow drying paint which is no good when you want to respray for the next session.
    You don t seem to be responding to the requests that people are replying to you, when they suggest other options, i.e. bright target numbers etc.

    I quote you here “ Its obvious that this sport and those people with visual issues are not perceived compatible. And from some of the replies, seen as an unwanted issueâ€
    I m not being funny but any shooting sport with a scope etc is not ideal for anyone who is visually impared as they are sports/hobbies that use optics.

    Pete
     
  16. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    A few good points made in your post Shaun but that statement confused me?

    I presume you meant to use the phrase "Woe is me" meaning one who is surrounded with sadness and misfortune?

    I can only think that "Woah" is a different spelling of "Whoa" which is a commonly used term usually related to a request to slow down, and often an expression shouted at an out of control high speed horse. Commonly used in Wild West movies where our hero rides up to, and jumps onto, the leading horse of a team of horses that are runnning out of control, dragging our, usually very attractive, leading lady inside a stagecoach across the plains at great speed. He will pull on the reins and shouts in a manly voice ... "Whoooooooooaaaaah" and the situation, and our leading lady, is saved.

    So unless Bluey is thinking of galloping out of control, rifle in hand, through a woodland HFT course, slapping his thigh and shouting " Yeeeeaahh Shoot them pesky varmints " ... not to be recommended by anyone with or without Bluey's impaired vision, and almost certainly in violation of health and safety issues ... then your term is probably inappropriate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  17. Toucan59

    Toucan59 Active Member

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    Simon, if you do decide to carry on with HFT and are at a shoot where I am, I will gladly shoot with you.
    I am colour-blind and sometimes have trouble finding targets, so it might be a long day but im sure that we would have a laugh.
    ATB
    Ray
     
  18. Kenny-W

    Kenny-W New Member

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    My humblest apologies Rog, i very rarely use the PC these days and the Iphone is possibly not the best platform to use when typing in a forum, the box is actually smaller than a Swan Vesta match box :)

    Regards
    Kenny
     
  19. shaun eustace

    shaun eustace Member

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    Right you are.. Woe is me was the intended phrase. Forgive my spelling at that time of the morning ;)
     
  20. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Shaun ... I was just acting the c*ck and trying to lighten the mood of the thread a tad.:D
     

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