Starting from scratch... TX200

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by RobF, May 20, 2015.

  1. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Thought it might be fun, useful, something to do etc to go from a stock standard rifle to full blown FT rig, and note the changes and reasons why along the way.

    Everything is off the shelf full price, just stated because some have thought that kit rains down on me free from the trees.

    The starting point is a TX200 full length mk3 .177 running at 12ft-lbs (for our international fans) (not chrono'd yet) purchased from the NSRA shop for £406.

    Next are some mounts. Sportsmatch. Because I'm having some shift issues on the HW97 i'm trying to eliminate all possible shift points on this rig from day1, so i've gone from some non adjustable this time... i can swap to them later once I know all is well. I'm not doubting the adjustables on the springer, because even when they had all the bolts out, they were loctited and still held together and I still saw shift. But i can rule them in/out later.
    Got the lowest 30mm I can get (for when I get a rail) and some mediums which I can make higher with some Sportsmatch riser blocks I have in the meantime. I'm pretty happy with Sportsmatch, all I do is swap the bolts for some stainless steel ones. Got them from Tawnado airguns. I ordered them Sunday, I had a missed delivery card yesterday. So 2 pairs £53 delivered.

    Scope will be a Deben 10-50x56 out of the cupboard, different to my current one. That way if this rig doesn't shift i can swap scopes and see if there's a problem with my current one.

    Also on order is a CS1000 from custom stocks, who are doing a 10% discount still, so that's £30 saved. I've got a Maccari on the 97, which is a CS1000 clone (? which came first ?) and so I thought i'd go with that as the feel should be similar. I'll throw my G&E Return hook on because i'm pretty happy with that as well. It's got an AJP knob on it for quick movement. I'll also get an AJP rail made up once i've got the scope height sorted. That way i'll have the scope where I want on the level, and be able to move the hook quick for any shots up and down.
    The standard stock shoulders nice for standing, but sitting it's too shallow and the cheek comb is way to low... so she's gotta go.
    In the interim I'm borrowing/stealing Mr. Privett's old handmade tx200 stock which he says is a good fit and he's seen no zero shift with. So hopefully Sunday i'll be able to take the original mk3 stock around to Helen's dad where he'll hopefully cross my palms with silver. But it has a small nick on the stock which it arrived with so there may be some bartering going on... or me phoning the NSRA shop Monday.
    If i wasn't selling it on, i could cut a raising cheekpiece on and bolt on a fore-end as a much cheaper solution.

    Internals I'm leaving for a bit, but i'll probably line up some new bits once i know what I want. Apparently this short stroke thing is all the latest fad, my old 97 never felt 'quick' but as it was accurate i didn't really care. (the issue being it wouldn't keep the very tight group in the same place for a long time). I probably won't get too obsessive with internals. I just want them consistent, and reliable, and ideally not sounding like a coughing horse.

    So we're up to about £750 with the new bits. The hook's are running at around £370 from intershoot, which is inline with the 500 euros they're fetching in Europe. I bought mine years ago 2nd hand.
    Debens aren't a popular scope, which is great, because they're cheap, bombproof, and if Mr Ayers or Mr Hancox doesn't see them up for grabs I get there first. So what, £1300 rig? Lets say £1500 with the rail, trigger and tuning bits. I could probably shave £700 off that with some home made heath robinson stuff on the stock and the standard plate, but i'm fitting it around what i'm used to... but £1500 isn't bad for something I'd expect to perform right up to the top end of FT competition and take plenty of PCP scalps along the way. £700 would probably get me very close though, and it's just familiarity that's making me go down the CS & GE route.

    So far so good. I had a few shots with her on Monday with a quickly bolted on scope, and managed to get a rough zero within a few mins at 30m. Most going through the same hole in some normal paper, but it was more an exercise in just getting her shot in a bit. Trigger feels a bit rough so i suspect i'll be hunting down some tuning reference for that. I'm looking at an adjustable trigger from Rowan as well.
    Cocking action seems considerably much easier than my vmach97... Area52 is wondering if that effort is perhaps pulling zero out. Still getting used to the anti bear trap. That may have to go. Dunno.

    Looking forward to Steve's loaner stock Sunday, getting the Deben on, and getting some lead down the range in aim to be vaguely competitive for the GP the weekend after.
     
  2. ellis d

    ellis d Active Member

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    Anti bear trap...stick a sliver of plastic in there...sorted, if u don't go down the alloy piston route, get the piston rod changed to the mk1,2 length and mk1,2 internals be similar to your hw...:D hope it all comes together for you rob....been down the misbehaving hw route myself as u know..cant fault my tx:shot::)
     
  3. fatwelshboy

    fatwelshboy Member

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    Short stroking makes a massive difference. I have a TX (tuned by Bigtoe on BBS) that's been short stroked, shortened transfer port, lightened piston, HW seal conversion, custom spring and guides. It shoots incredible, very quick but not at all thumpy/slammy. My setup runs a 25mm piston but the guys on BBS are now testing tunes with a 23mm piston and saying that it's another step forward.
     
  4. Yorkshiretea

    Yorkshiretea B Grade Bandit

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    Why Rob Why? :)
     
  5. matt goodson

    matt goodson New Member

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    I have a 23mm 97 by Tony, and yes it is :)
     
  6. Nick G

    Nick G Active Member

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    I have built a 23mm tx to compare it to the ally pistons I make, The shot cycle is very similar, the cocking is easier, and the sight picture movement similar, very difficult to to choose between the two, next step for me is to go down to 21mm comp tube with the standard tx mk3 stroke and see what that's like :confused:
     
  7. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    i'll be pleased if she just stays on zero tomorrow :D

    I had her down the range indoors on friday but really struggled with the standard stock... it's too shallow for FT sitting position, and the top of the butt was barely in my shoulder. Cheek was way off the stock as well. It grouped but i had issues with snatch. If i didn't snatch then i could get a tight group that i'd say was very acceptable. I did have to gradually dial out some final windage and elevation as the evening went on, but i put that down to me and it settling in.

    New stock is on now as of today (thanks Steve), but it's only held in by the main bolt, because the front end didn't line up. But the mounts and risers are on, as is a spirit level. Scope's trued up. The other Deben I had isn't a patch on my main one, so that's back on. So if it shifts, i'll have to see if it's scope or stock. I'm hoping neither. The logic was that if i wanted to avoid using the scope off the 97 i'd still have to do all my parallax ranges if i saw shift or not because i haven't used my spare in years... this way if she's stable, i won't have to.

    Fingers crossed. Touching marine ply, and getting my moggy Nero to meander in front of my down my path.

    I suppose you sleeve down to get the reduce diameter?
     
  8. Nick G

    Nick G Active Member

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    Yes seamless hydraulic tubing, Then I make my own piston.
     
  9. SDplinker

    SDplinker Pellet testing...yawn

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  10. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Ta. Interesting.

    Im going to resist the internals for a bit... the biggest progress will be her not shifting, and getting my CS, and sorting the trigger out, which feels like i've got brown sugar in the mechanism.
     
  11. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    So she got a few 100 through her in the new stock... it was a bit hard work.

    I got a pretty quick 25 yd zero, and then jumped to a 55yd which also came in pretty quick. Started to work back and the numbers seemed to drop on the usual trajectory for 800fps... i junked a batch of JSB's and went back to the ones I was using in the 97 as the grouped better and flew flatter by some margin. 50 ok, 1&1/4 MOA from 55, 45 1 MOA from 50. Then the fun began. At around 40 yds i was getting some oddness, it was shooting almost as low as my 25yd... (5 & 1/4 MOA from 55) in fact it ended up being my 25yd. Then my 25yd changed. Then my 55yd changed. All going up. Here we go! Then after much up and down the plinking range, numbers seemed to fall into place... perhaps it was the new stock settling, perhaps the barrel... speed seemed fairly constant between 798-804... anyway, all seemed well for about a hour. Then I though i'd have a crack at the 38yd 20mm bell... and missed an inch high. Back to sq1 again with a zero that seemingly took 2-3 shots to settle after a dialling...grrrr, it's looking like the scope... but i also noticed a strange reaction of my knee on the hamster on this 38yder making it jump like it was being tested for reflex. So I junked the hamster as it seemed to be interfering with this shot... and then every single range jumped about 2 MOA. Lifted and shifted the turret and for 30 mins everything held where it should, nothing flew out of orbit, and i hit things.

    So I left it there.

    Had a shoot of Steve's short stroke, and it felt much snappier... like that feeling... and his trigger felt much cleaner and crisper and the rowan felt nice as well... so i'll head in that direction I think. I'll also get a rail with incline in because I'm up the top of the turret with non adjustable mounts. Going to do windage indoors because the Bucc's plinking range has some subtle drift that's hard to spot... and hope that she's where I left her, and stays that way for Sunday.
     
  12. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Well, the good news is... the zero has held. Although I only tested it indoors at 25yds. But it was on the level.

    What I did have is a jump up on every few shots, which was I think hold sensitivity. I never really experienced this with the 97, and I think a lot of it is having a stock that isn't as snug as i'd like it. I really want to add a centimetre or so to the butt, but as it's not my stock and I don't want to break it, it's staying put. Also the hook doesn't come high enough as i would like. So i've combatted this jump by resorting to some weight (self adhesive wheel weights)... got 240g on the front of the stock, and 120g sitting on the muzzle, and after that lot went on, she stayed on the level. I've also stuck a lump where my thumb sits to aid consistent hold there.

    So slowly I think we're getting there, although i've been here before so until i'm 100% i won't be surprised if i see something odd.

    If all's well on Sunday i'm going to drop the trigger block and get it smoother with a bit of polishing. It's getting better, but it's still rough and heavy.

    I'll also treat it to a rowan adjustable. It's amazing just how much work you do with a rig to get it just so... but if i can dial out some of it before the CS turns up then it can only be beneficial. Then I need to start whispering in short stroker's ears :D
     
  13. Artfull-Bodger

    Artfull-Bodger Member

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    Where is the balance point Rob?, I balance mine around the hamster so it sits neutral with the hamster in my palm?

    Secondly, are you resting the hamster on your knee? I have found that to be a big no no, I rest the hamster on my fist with my fist on my knee, bottom fingers wrapped around my kneecap, I have found that eliminates POI changes due to bounce?
     
  14. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Yep, going the same way, i have to have fingers in between my knee and stock. With the 97, i didn't. The tx has to have this or she's off every few shots.

    Balance is about 2" in front of where my hand sits. I'll have a play next week some more... but it's probably a little academic until i get the CS. I tend to favour front heavy until i can get a rig fitting just so.
     
  15. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    It's making me so nervous reading all this ... I've had to up my meds.

    Please God let her hold.
     
  16. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    ive got a bit of high density foam somewhere .
    that'll give you about 10mm extra if double sided taped to yer hook .

    i.ll dig it out
     
  17. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    You want to drop out the middle and lower sears then mirror polish the engagement surfaces (without altering the angles or edges), that will smooth it up nicely. Add a little moly paste on the engagement surfaces as well.

    When correctly set up the AA trigger is real close to the Venom Mach 1 trigger unit and beats the pants off the Rekord unit.

    I haven't tried much with the Rowan trigger blade.

    I have a brass Venom straight blade on mine and it is a big improvement over the AA blade as the two grub screws that control the stages are set more 'vertical' so are closer to the trigger blade pivot point and contact the lower sear further from its pivot point which maximises the leverage and gives a much finer feel to the trigger release.

    From what I have seen of the Rowan, the stage screws follow a similar angle to factory AA so doesn't get the most out of the design.
     
  18. ellis d

    ellis d Active Member

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    Getting rid of the mk3 internals should be your no1 priority rob...proper woefull and unforgiving..trust me on that:D, rowen trigger blade a lot better than the standard blade, who you gonna turn to for the short stroking ???
     
  19. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    cheers Dale.... being lazy, do you know of a any good guides?
     
  20. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    no.1 is getting me and it shooting straight... but it's on the list. I'll have a chat with a couple of people sunday and see what's what.

    One thing I would like to change is how far the lever comes back, way further than the 97... i don't know if that changes the approach on short stroking...
     

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