Springer conversion

Discussion in 'Piston & Spring' started by whytefang, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Wow, thread resurrection... !

    Anyway, probably best to keep popping in Tony as not everyone is doing the FB thang these days so much :)
     
  2. C.Eaton

    C.Eaton Confirmed Anschutz Nut...

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    Just to add my 2p I've recently cleaned out my ProSport and Sirocco and relubed with graphite powder. A month in and both are shooting better than ever, trust me powder is the future...;)
     
  3. bigtoe

    bigtoe Member

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    Cargy text me with a link, did not know it was very old ;)

    I will try to bob in more as i can ;)
     
  4. rex&amy

    rex&amy Active Member

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    just to clarify that I see first greasy hand that there was enough oil on the piston to do an episode of Dallas and it was warm so there would be no resistance due to friction. I could tell it was user error or I wouldnt have jumped through hoops today to get a new mk 3 piston and ordered a kit from Tony to do it. I can see that its the way forward.
     
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  5. prosport.177

    prosport.177 New Member

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    I must be lucky I built my 22mm full body piston 3 or 4 years ago. It has been stripped once when I moved comp tube and piston I to another tx. I have fired thousands of shots through it, never had breakage or things go wrong. Power is settled at 770 and I couldn't be happier.
    I went down the route of hw 45 aus seal, full bodied ally piston, and sleeved tp .
     
  6. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    What spring did you use?
     
  7. prosport.177

    prosport.177 New Member

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    Titan 11 I think from memory.
    18.8 od as it was a nice fit inside piston body.
    I know machining the rear guide was a bit of a pain. Ended up with not much meat on it..
    I used nylatron as that's what I had. It's not broken yet
     
  8. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I've had a few snapped rear guides running a similar set up. Although I have found a Vortek spring now that seems really nice and has a bit more room. That's one of the issues with the full piston 22/21's - snapped springs and snapped rear guides.
     
  9. Xbank

    Xbank Member

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    That's probably my rifle that Chris has mentioned, and as he said, he had not contacted the owner. The piston had not stuck in the comp tube but merely the spring was rather tight around the spring guide, which made it a little difficult to remove, to add pre-load. The rifle was firing well at 10.5 ftlb but needed to be upped a little. Tony soon fitted a new delrin spring guide and also enclosed a couple of washers. Job done. I have no hesitation in recommending his conversion.
     
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  10. prosport.177

    prosport.177 New Member

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    Are you running seal or o ring?
    I settled on 89,90mm stroke.
    Think nick g runs shorter stroke, and I know he uses o rings. I do like the shot cycle from nicks guns.
    Not sure where Tony is on stroke with his set ups.
    I must be really lucky as never had a spring or guide break!
     
  11. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I've tried quite a few configurations and played with stroke and piston mass quite a bit - I've also had a NickG 21mm kit in my gun. Same problem - 4 snapped rear guides before it was consigned to the parts bin.

    The setup in my spare TX which is similar to yours was something Jon Budd concocted. Ally piston about 150g if I remember correctly, quite a long stroke - around 91mm, going shorter just felt very harsh to shoot. And a sized hw45 red Aussie seal. That setup has killed 3 Titan 11 springs, but has had a Vortek spring in it for a few months now and it's holding together well. Gun shoots lovely.

    In my competition TX, I've got one of Tony Leach's skirtless piston 22mm setups, and that has been excellent and reliable. I won the winter league piston trophy with it and it's done well on its last two GP outings too, including putting in the joint highest piston score ever in a GP. So far so good.

    Yes, I think you've been lucky with your spring, unless you're running in the low 10's of foot pounds, much over 10.5 and you're asking a lot of that little meteor spring.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  12. airborn68

    airborn68 Active Member

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    I am running similar to Bri's spare in my TX Hc, It has eaten a couple of titan 11 springs but I extended the stroke and made a steel rear spring guide.
    It is in regular use and has not been touched for about 18 months now.

    Jon
     
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  13. prosport.177

    prosport.177 New Member

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    I know the rifle Jon B built. At the bash that year he came with a nice 23mm he had built.
    There was a fair bit of talk about going smaller again. I remember Jon saying about the 22mm hw45 seal.
    It was quite funny as we were bounding ideas round. Well a few months later at the nxt bash Jon and my self both turned up with 22mm built. Nearly the same stroke and dimensions.. I thought Jon's was a shirtless 22 though. I honestly can not remember ..
    I turned up a full bodied 22 piston but as you are aware spring room is compromised.
    Skirtless has more spring choice, more potential for spring bend miss shape..
    Maybe I got lucky with a good spring! It's running 770 last time I checked.
    As I say never had a breakage.

    Good shooting by the way
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  14. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Yup, my set of internals were concocted by Jon, but they weren't what he went to the bash with. We were working together with me as test pilot. The skirtless set up with a floating centre guide shot very well indeed. Right up until the point where something snapped in it at the GP at Far Coley and I had to retire from the competition.

    Me and Jon both struggled to find a spring that was upto the job - Titan 11's are a bit harsh feeling and don't survive long. We tried a protek M127 which was lovely at 9.5 fpe but if you tried to get any more power out of it it would deform and turn to chocolate. Nice while it lasted though and at 9 fpe it was just a joy to shoot. (would make an excellent Springer BR tune). This Vortek spring seems nice though. Dead easy to cock and surprisingly makes power effortlessly. It's running at 11.4 fpe!.

    I was suspicious of skirtless pistons for spring movement, but if it's made to tight tolerances it's not an issue.
    Tony's set of internals I'm running at the moment in my comp rifle have had around 12,000 pellets through it in hot and cold weather and so far (touch wood) it's survived well.

    Sorry - this might be a bit of a boring conversation for anyone else reading it, but.... take this from it - going to an exotic tune is not all plain sailing and might end up costing a lot more than you first hoped and could be a real pain in the bum.
     
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  15. prosport.177

    prosport.177 New Member

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    I know the shirtless set up Jon built with the floating central guide. This was the one that came to the bash. I think the only difference was Jon short ported it.
    I didn't short port my rifle but reduced the tp to 3.3. Maybe this has something to do with it.

    Yep Tony has pretty much nailed his 22 I think. He's put a lot of work into it. It's as you say an expensive route, or can be.
    If I had not been able to make my own I personally do not think I would have bought one. Just my own thoughts..)
    I have to admit i have gone back to shooting a completely standard mk1 set up with original spring guides and if I am honest it's pretty good, not as soft as the 22, or soft as the 22 felt recoil. But accuracy wise the standard 25mk1 tx takes some beating ,)
     
  16. prosport.177

    prosport.177 New Member

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    Brian Out of interest what vortek spring are you using?

    Cheers
     
  17. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Ah, not entirely sure. It was from a Vortek kit for a TX200 that I bought 2nd hand a few years ago. Don't have the dimensions to hand but it fits in a 22mm full piston nicely has about 8mm of preloading on the spring and although it feels soft makes power easily. It also hasn't broken yet which is nice :)

    I also run a short TP.
     
  18. prosport.177

    prosport.177 New Member

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    Thanks Brian

    Will look into info on that spring and see. Is this the spring you are running in the full bodied 22mm ?
     
  19. prosport.177

    prosport.177 New Member

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    Thank you you have already answered ,)
     
  20. nick2

    nick2 Active Member

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    I have been using a Vortek spring in my 21mm since December & touch wood its working really well. Only problem I'm having lately is the breech seal o ring shredding. Part no for the spring is 730113_35. & measures 18.5mm OD, 3mm wire, 275mm overall. With 20mm preload & 8.4's its running around 770 fps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018

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