Scopes, purpose designed for HFT???

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by McMurphy, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. McMurphy

    McMurphy New Member

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    I was reading one of this months shooting mags and in the article the mentioned about that several manufactures have made purpose desided HFT scopes, is this true or are they scopes that have just been adapted and if so which scope company's and which scopes???
     
  2. chrisc

    chrisc Lucky git

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    MTC Viper 10x44. Gary Cooper cut his teeth on the earlier HFT shoots.:)
     
  3. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Hi

    I'm still using an old 4-12x40 30/30 so I'm not really best placed to comment.

    Hawke designed and manufactured the half mil dot x38 scope ( was it a Sidewinder ? ) for HFT. Didn't some HFT shooter have something to do with the design?

    It was only a matter of time before people started moving to smaller Objective lens scopes to give better depth. Hence we now see people using the Leup x33 ( I think Pete Dutton uses one of those ... or did ? ) and the MTC Connect ( x33 or 32 ... Rammy is now on one of those ).
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  4. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Coops won one of the early HFT summer National series.

    I remember Coops talking to me many many years ago about using mil dots to range ... and I've just read on the ranging thread that Brian Samson said he had something to do with the MTC tree SCB ret.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2013
  5. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I didn't have much input into the SCB ret, well more accurately not much of my input was actually implemented.

    The one thing Gary did put in was the floating cross in the centre, the original SCB didn't have that and I suggested it would help to reduce some of the clutter to have a floating cross, that would also give an extra aimpoint as well. Gary didn't agree with me, but Sammie overruled him and it made it into the production models.

    Webley/Logun asked me to design an HFT reticle for a new range of high quality scopes a while back. Which I did - I called it the Kite reticle, but it never saw the light of day because they went under sadly. Shame it was a really good ret :(
     
  6. hotversion

    hotversion Member

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    kite ret

    I would love to see what that was like brian have you a pic?
     
  7. Adam

    Adam Active Member

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    Glad she did; the floating cross is the best feature IMHO! :)
     
  8. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I've still got the draft specification, if someone would make a scope with it in, I'd buy one.
     

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  9. Tye

    Tye Shabba

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    brilliant Brian as always
     
  10. berty177

    berty177 Judge Diva

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    March scopes

    Brian,

    I'm sure march scopes would set the ret up bud.
    They made one from Conor's design for ft.
    Only issue is the price of a scope sadly...


    Berty
     
  11. Petervw

    Petervw Member

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    I'm still waiting for MTC to make a 1 inch tube SF 8x32 with SCB ret
    10x is too much for me as I don't like blurry vision
    now I use a Mamba Lite 3-12x44 (great HFT scope) at 7x

    Peter
     
  12. hotversion

    hotversion Member

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    re

    Yeah i like it,hope it gets used,we seem to be moving away from big objectives now and i like that,i like depth of feild.......so at least i can see were ive missed:eek:o
     
  13. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Ey up Berty.

    Yeah, I don't think I could justify the cost really. I've already got what I consider to be the best HFT scope available - a Leup VXIII EFR with FFP Gen2 mildots. I'd like a scope with the Kite design ret in it, but I wouldn't like it 3 grand more than the one I've got.

    I'm also not really able to shoot HFT for the time being - I broke my back last year and constantly getting up and down from the prone position leaves me in a fair bit of pain now.

    It's recoiling FT for me at the moment :)
     
  14. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I think there's more of a market for an HFT scope at the lower end of the market rather than top quality glass, and to be honest you don't need top quality glass for HFT.

    Personally, I reckon reasonable quality glass at around 9x40 is about right for HFT. Enough DoF to see everything, shallow enough to use some parallax tricks to rangefind and at 40mm objective lets enough light in that you don't need expensive glass to see what you're shooting at.

    I don't think any scope manufacturer could justify making a mass produced scope just for HFT, the bulk of the market is in hunting with powder burners. So any scope would need to suit both markets to be a financial success.

    HFT is a tiny market.
     
  15. McMurphy

    McMurphy New Member

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    Damn shame Webley went under! That was looking and sounding interesting Mr Samson mate!
     
  16. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    I'm still convinced that good glass on a small objective is more important than loads of aiming points, especially with all the different target shapes now making ranging with dots more difficult.

    There's a good Japanese made scope that is 3-9x32 mildot that looks to have good glass but it's from the Sates so postage and taxes make it a bit pricey ( about 220 quid all in ).

    I'd settle for an old Japanese made 3-9x32 with 30/30 ret ... like the old B&L ones. So if anyone has one of those lying in a cupboard.;)

    I've used cheaper glass and that blurry area tends to vary ... it's 35 yards one day and 40 the next ... so it actually confuses ranging. That maybe my eyes :D but I've found with slightly better glass the focus range seems more consistent ... for me. A 40mm obj. used to give me 13 to 35 with 25 pa. Now I'm blurred at 20. So a smaller obj. would mean I could set up to focus in the shorter ones a bit and still leave enough blur to give a clue on 40 and 45.

    I'm still a massive believer that you never go outside of 1 md anyway for aiming ( from 12 yards to 45 I'm not outside half a mildot )... apart from 8 and 9 yards. I set up 1 md for thick bar on the 30/30. . For 8 and 9 yards the kill looks so huge at 20mm min and 9x that it's dead easy to judge where to put the bottom bar anyway.
     
  17. hotversion

    hotversion Member

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    How? whats your set up if you dont mind me asking,from 12y to 45y in 0.5 ov a mildot?:confused:
     
  18. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Yup 1/2 md ( or in my case 1/2 thin bar ) from cross hair from 12 to 45. So that's a total of 1 md but only 1/2 md either side of cross.

    Edited all the details out because it was boring. Say if you want the aim points for various ranges.

    Set up is 0.177, AA 8.4gr, high mounts, 9.5x.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  19. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    By my quick calculations... on 9.5x the distance between the thick post on a 30/30 ret and the crosshairs at 45 yards is 72mm which is 1.7 milldots, not 1 mildot.

    Perhaps you don't have a standard 30/30 ret ?

    Although from your holdovers, that sounds about right to me...
    If I'm zeroed at 35 yards, 45 yards is about 0.8md (I normally use top of first dot down as my aimpoint).

    If your 30/30 ret is correctly calibrated and you're aiming halfway down the thin post, that should be (by my calculations) 0.85md which is the same as my holdover... but it's not 1/2 a md it's almost 1 md.

    I'm not saying you can't use a 30/30 ret for HFT, not at all.

    But personally and I'd say for the vast majority of other shooters out there, expressing aimpoints in terms of md is much easier and gives much greater accuracy than guessing half and quarter distances on a 30/30 ret.

    So as an example, on a rig zeroed at 35 yards with a half mil ret. 40 yards is going to be almost exactly on the 1/2 md mark.. which gives you a very definite aimpoint and 45 yards is going to be top of first dot down. Again it gives you a very definite aimpoint.

    When you're designing a scope to sell, you need to cater for the largest market, and that I'm afraid at the moment is multi-aimpoint rets - usually with half mildot increments.

    But HFT is still a tiny market.. so any 'HFT' scopes would also need to appeal to all the other markets out there to make it financially viable. Other markets do want to use more than 1md of holdover, so you'd need to cater for those shooters too if you wanted to shift more than a dozen or so scopes.
     
  20. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with your comments re most people wanting multi aim points and having to cater for a range of markets and not just HFT to sell enough scopes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013

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