Realization of Pure Quality

Discussion in 'Piston & Spring' started by Buffalo, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. Buffalo

    Buffalo Greyhound Gun Club

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    76
    Location:
    Barwell, Leicester
    Club:
    Greyhound Gun Club
    This is something I thought I need to share with you springer fans.

    Unfortunately as it does sometimes my spring broke yesterday so was unable to use my piece of class TX200 with a beautiful Nick G conversion. I resorted to a standard setup of my spare rifle which I recently required been a LGU under lever. What I quickly realized it was like comparing a old rattly 1960 beetle to a 2017 Rolls Royce. This quickly brought to the the realization of the quality of work that Nick G does to his rifles. I thought of going back to a standard setup thinking due to my lack of knowledge and technical skills having it standard would be easy for my to sort out if something happened. I can tell you know that will not happen not after today's shoot with a standard springer, I will rather take it back to the magician to work his magic.

    Once again Nick G thanks for the awesome work you carried out on my rifle.:D:D:D:D:D
     
  2. Finners1960

    Finners1960 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Leeds, West Yorkshire
    Reliability issue..?

    Hi,

    You say... "Unfortunately as it does sometimes my spring broke yesterday so was unable to use my piece of class TX200 with a beautiful Nick G conversion."

    So, is this a regular occurrence? Is it an issue that Nick is aware of..?

    I'd be interested to find out why the springs are breaking..? Are they being shortened using inappropriate methods..?

    Just curious....

    Finners.:confused:
     
  3. Nick G

    Nick G Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Messages:
    458
    Location:
    coventry
    Club:
    Greyhound/ Purley Chase
    Here we go ,no inappropriate methods used when shortening, I have had an issue with this 21mm set up due to it being too efficient and making more power than I need , and not being able to find a softer spring in the size I require, therefore there hasn't been enough pre load and the springs have been jumping off the rear guide , this I think has caused the breakage ( the spring broke at both ends ), I have now changed things considerably and the spring now has in the region of 20mm of pre load so we shall see if i have overcome this .

    On another note , I stopped doing this conversion some time ago because of said spring problem ( though my own gun is on the same spring after around 18 months of use) but a good friend at my club badgered me into doing one for him on the understanding that he would keep it and I could keep an eye on it for him , however he sold it on, to you guessed it Buffalo so now i am upgrading the gun for the second owner .
     
  4. Buffalo

    Buffalo Greyhound Gun Club

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2015
    Messages:
    76
    Location:
    Barwell, Leicester
    Club:
    Greyhound Gun Club
    In Nick's defense when I took over the rifle this was also made also very clear to me. From the first time I shot it I fell in love. I have spoken to people who are also regular shooters and still have this same conversion over a year on as Nick said. That's springers for you they say, they keep you on your toes.

    Cannot wait for the upgrade as I thought it was almost perfect previously. Emley Moore here we come this Sunday, look out for the Bufalo
     
  5. Alanok2002

    Alanok2002 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    Barnsley
    Club:
    Redfearns
    I have one of these 21mm setups which is now on its 5th spring im just waiting now for a different softer spring which i have bought so i can take the titan one out and by adding a softer longer spring will give preload and stop breaking hopefully
     
  6. Nick G

    Nick G Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Messages:
    458
    Location:
    coventry
    Club:
    Greyhound/ Purley Chase
    What spring have you gone for ?
     
  7. Finners1960

    Finners1960 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Leeds, West Yorkshire
    Ahh.. I see.


    Thanks for the explanation Nick. Sounds like you're all over the problem and have engineered a solution. The reason I mentioned, 'inappropriate shortening' of the springs is that I'm a Metallurgist by profession and I've been involved with the metallurgy and heat treatment of springs for many years. So many spring gun enthusiasts do it wrong..! I once wrote an article on the subject for Jim Tyler, which he published in his magazine.
    Thanks for updating us with your developments...I find your work very interesting indeed.
    Cheers, Finners
     
  8. Nomads HFT

    Nomads HFT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Worcester
    If more people had read your excellent article (Airgun Sport, June 2010) rather than be guided by what's published on the Internet, there would have been a lot fewer broken mainsprings. :D
     
  9. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    13,028
    Location:
    New Forest, Hampshire
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    It's really nice to see the board attracting some real knowledge in the various subjects :)
     
  10. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Can't Re Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,538
    Location:
    wimborne
    How do we get to read that article ?
     
  11. Alanok2002

    Alanok2002 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2016
    Messages:
    135
    Location:
    Barnsley
    Club:
    Redfearns
    Ordered a vortek 730113 simular size to titan but slightly thinner in diamention meaning its softer got delivered yesterday but im working away till friday but can let you know how it goes i think brian samson added one to his and said it was shooting great not asked him since so dont know how its going on
     
  12. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,320
    Location:
    Doncaster
    Club:
    Doncaster Airgun Range
    It didn't make it to a tin of pellets before the rear guide broke Alan :( I had hoped that a longer spring with some preload would help, but it hasn't.
     
  13. nick2

    nick2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    Newark
    Club:
    Lincs HFT
    How did it feel before the guide broke Brian. I picked up a couple of these springs last week. My rear guide is ali, would a steel one be worth trying.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  14. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,320
    Location:
    Doncaster
    Club:
    Doncaster Airgun Range
    I had high hopes for it actually - it's a nice soft spring, very very easy to cock.

    I put it in initially because I thought it wouldn't make power and would only run at around 9 fpe - which could have made a really nice shooting bench rest springer (that was the plan anyway).

    When I chono'd it I was shocked to find it doing 11.5 fpe with 8.4's - it felt like it was doing 9.

    After speaking to a few tuners the consensus seemed to be that the guides kept breaking because the spring was bouncing and that was due to there being next to no preload on the original spring. The Vortek had 10mm of preload and I hoped this would be enough.

    Before the guide snapped it was shooting very nicely. I'm out of ideas and enthusiasm now, but I do really like this vortek spring and I have a spare 22mm piston and comp tube it might work well in. This is all in my spare TX.

    I'd suggest for testing purposes go with a sliding fit delrin rear guide and a steel washer - if it breaks a delrin guide you'll know something is still being stressed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  15. nick2

    nick2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Messages:
    434
    Location:
    Newark
    Club:
    Lincs HFT
    Thanks Brian, I have recently tried the next size up Vortek spring with 10mm of preload. This didnt feel as good as the Titan & after a short while the bottom coil splayed out & started catching on the inside of the piston when cocking. The 730113 spring sounds promising :)
     
  16. Finners1960

    Finners1960 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Leeds, West Yorkshire
    Spring shortening article...

    Thanks for that Jim, and thanks also for your continued good work with your 'Technical Airgun' section of AGW. It really is what keeps my subscription going..!!
    What are the chances of repeating the article in AGW..? I guess that there may be copyright issues, but I would endorse a re-run... I still have the original paper.

    Regards,
    Jez.
     
  17. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,320
    Location:
    Doncaster
    Club:
    Doncaster Airgun Range
    +1 - yes please, I'd like to read that too.
     
  18. Nomads HFT

    Nomads HFT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Worcester
    Hi Jez,

    Thanks for the kind words. :)

    Just spoken to Terry, and he's happy to publish it. I still have the original photos, captions and text as published, so I could send them, unless you want to amend the text.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  19. Finners1960

    Finners1960 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Leeds, West Yorkshire
    I've nothing to add Jim. You did a great job with the photo's I remember. I think it's good to go....again!

    Regards,

    Jez
     
  20. Nick G

    Nick G Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Messages:
    458
    Location:
    coventry
    Club:
    Greyhound/ Purley Chase
    Hi Brian, as I remember your guide broke right at the end , I am wondering if it may have been run out in the piston rod , at the same time I built yours I did one for myself, using a delrin guide ( boiled in water in an attempt to temper ) this had one of my own rods fitted and runs a titan spring I expected the guide to break quickly but its still going strong , i keep waiting for it to break, it has very little pre load which like you i feel is the problem.
    Recently did some testing and had the 21mm down to 85mm stroke before it stopped doing 11fpe and needing 20mm pre load with the No11, it was a little snappy so gradually worked my way up to 90mm, its faster than the full stroke but still very civilised and needs 15mm pre load , I have also found different barrels need differing setups , so its not really a drop in.
    As an aside I tried a No12 thinking it would be softer for the full length and first tried at 25mm pre load I was wrong it did 15 fpe!:eek: Its surprising how little volume is required to make the power.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice