Rangefinding in HFT (help needed)

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by Danladi, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. James0807

    James0807 Member

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    2.5-8x36

    You must have your scope parallax set very close to use blur on the model in question. My rigs have to be able to put pellets in one hole at 8and 45yds. inducing blur on this scope simply would not allow me to do that!

    Cheers.
     
  2. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Wow! One day I hope to be good enough to one hole at 8y!:D

    Do you have good eyesight James?
     
  3. James0807

    James0807 Member

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    Not too bad the old eyes.

    I am not the only one that can do it. You know I am talking 1.5 pellet width, sometimes better. It is more down to consistent head position. The way the scope is set up is important, this is not a five minute job. It took me a few days to find the right settings

    cheers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  4. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Talk us through it then chief, but write in large text so us blind uns can read it!:D
     
  5. James0807

    James0807 Member

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    As you know, basically just playing around with the objective lens carrier until the right settings are achieved. It just takes time because of the testing required.


    CHEERS
     
  6. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    I'm now blind as a bat in my shooting eye. I now get 20 to 35 in focus and everything else is blurred. 15 is now what 8 used to be ... 8 is just a total blob. It helps with the 45 yarders and they have big kills anyway. That's why I'm looking for a decent small objective scope to help with 15mm kills at 13 to 18.

    I'd much sooner shoot a 15mm at 25y than 15y. If I focus the scope when practising I can get 1 hole at 15y but with the pa at 25y I'm struggling group inside the 15mm at 13 yards to 18 yards. These are the targets that are hurting me at the moment ... and standers. Thank goodness it's 20mm kills below 13y.
     
  7. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Bri

    I think it's obviousl now why I went back to 30/30 ret and guessing the range. I took the test and scored 0 out of 9. I was timed out on 6 of the targets and had a mild stroke on 2 as I ran out of dots.
     
  8. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I had the same problem and I've got some decent glass. I struggled to consistently group within a 15 killzone at 10m - this was prone, rested on a beanbag (not in a comp btw).

    The problem for me was parallax error. I put a scope enhancer on my scope and was putting pellet on pellet straight away - oddly enough, slightly left of the centre of the killzone? (I have a theory about that now, but didn't have a clue about it at the time).

    Cheers, hope you enjoyed the test, I thought it would be fun to have a play with some code to display a zoomed in sight picture on a photograph. The message I guess I'm trying to convey with this test is that bracketing can be extremely accurate, but... It's not easy to do, it's a skill you'd need to learn and practice.

    Mildot's are extremely handy for holdover, and windage too - it's not all about bracketing.
    The 30/30 ret on the other hand was designed specifically for bracketing (a deer's shoulder).
     
  9. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Please take my comments with a hint of comedy/pinch of salt.

    I think it's great if people who struggle with ranging by eye can use these methods to range accurately.

    There is some madness in my method ( I hope ). Shooting the springer the biggest thing on me shooting accurately is ... me. If my mind is still and calm then my breathing is rythmical and my muscles relaxed. Result is I shoot accurately. If my mind gets busy then my breathing gets shallow and my muscles tense. Result is accuracy suffers badly.

    I was trying the mildots ranging methods but found myself double guessing my range by eye and then wondering should I aim here or there. Mind got busy ... accuracy suffered. No point me knowing what range it is if I can't hit the darn thing. So I've found going back to it's about that far, aim here, is getting me more points because I'm shooting with a still mind. For others it may be the opposite where they actually find knowing the range by the dots helps them relax and shoot better.

    I don't really have those many aim points anyway. On a 45 yard course I don't have to be that accurate with range for most of the targets. I don't have 45 aim points ... just a few. Is it between 15 yards and 32 yards ... aim inside bottom of kill. Is it 33 to 38 ... aim bang on. Is it 39 to 43 ( confirmed by bit of blur ) aim inside top of kill. Is it 44 or 45 ( confirmed by most blur ) bracket kill with cross and bottom bar.

    I'll probably go back to giving it another go at some point and I love reading all about it, so thankyou.

    I've not shot enough high scores yet for me to say it's working :D but it's doing ok ... when I turn up to a shoot with the right pellets.:D( That's another story ).

    PS ... just had another go and it's really good. Grrr I'm tempted bolt the Panorama back on now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  10. mr dink

    mr dink Member

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    Thank,s for posting the test Brian, what mag is the scope set at by the way.
     
  11. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    It's just a representation of a scope I drew, so it doesn't really bare any relation to what the image would look like through a real scope. The mildots are 'true' though, and the reticle is my PR Gen2 half mildot ret - well, a drawing of it anyway.
     
  12. martin blue eyes

    martin blue eyes shoot, pray and hope

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    scope hight for hft

    as well as range finding being the black art for newbie's like me what is the best scope hight for HFT high mounts or low mounts, thanks
     
  13. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    It's a bit of a trade-off martin and depends on a number of factors, so that's not an easy answer.

    Stock fit is important in HFT, especially your head position and since your head position is directly affected by your scope height you want to find a comfortable height for prone/kneeling/standing.

    You also have rifle specific factors to think about, some guns need a bit of extra space for the loading port / barrel / action etc.

    Generally the lower you can comfortably go the better, low mounts will make the close shots a bit easier since there won't be such big differences in holdover for the close ranges, but the flip side of that is that the longer shots will be slightly more difficult.

    High mounts are usually a bad idea, mediums or low's if you can get a comfortable head position.
     
  14. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Martin

    Brian has literally written the book on this subject, so, as always, his advice is to be taken very seriously.

    It really depends at what you find easiest ranging with your eye and with some help from the scope. As Brian said, if you have low or medium mounts then the closer targets will all be covered by just a couple of aim points. Remember all of the 15mm kills are between 13 and 25 yards. So most people go for lowish mounts so they can pretty much use the same aim point for the 15mm kills.

    If you find ranging the closer targets ( up to 30 yards ) quite easy and you can do that within a couple of yards, then you may find it better ( for you ) to have higher mounts. Using the higher mounts you get the impression that your trajectory ( with respect to aim points ) is flatter at the longer targets. So you will only have one or two aim points at the longer targets. So if you have a problem ranging the longer ones ( say 35 to 45 yards ) then higher mounts and less aim points over those distances may help you.

    Some will say that the kills are bigger on the longer targets so it's not that important. Kills are now 25mm out to 40 yards and a lot of UKAHFT 45 yarders have 35mm kills. So it's all relative.

    Personally I found I was very good at ranging by eye, with some scope ret bracketing help, out to 30 yards. So I was confident that I'd range the very small 15mm kills to within a yard or so. Once you can do that you only need to know your aim points for the close range distances and you'll get all the 15mm kills. You don't have to know aim points for every yard or be able to guess every target to within a yard. Just a few different aim points will cover all the close range distances. So I moved to high mounts and just worked out the aim points for the closer targets. The long stuff then became so much easier ( for me ). I only had a couple of aim points at the long stuff and I could get them all inside the kills on the ones I wasn't too sure about.

    Some shooters ( a lot of FT guys ) think the vertical balance of the rifle is very important. They like the bore ( centre of barrel ) to be in the centre of balance of the vertical range of the rifle set up. In HFT most shooters will use a hamster to give extra depth to the underside of the fore end. This helps with low HFT style prone and also with kneelers if the fore arm is being rested along the thigh. So if you use a deepish hamster but you also use low mounts, then the bore is quite offset toward the top of the rifle set up's vertical depth.

    Here's a photo of Dave Ramshead taken just a couple of weeks ago. He's as good as it gets when it comes to HFT. He's cleared a UKAHFT Gathering course ( more targets than a normal course ) and he's been National Champ on more than one occasion. Check out the mounts on his rifle and check out the height between the bore of the barrel and the centre of the scope. It even looks like there are riser blocks as well as the mounts. So not everyone who is a top shot at HFT goes for low mounts.

    HERE

    Maybe worth noting that Dave has his gloved fore hand lying on the floor but with the back of his hand in contact with the floor and the rifle rested on his upfacing palm. That will only give a shallow depth of his hand between the floor and the rifle. So, to keep a comfortable neck and head position he may need higher mounts to line the scope up with his eye ( he could use an even deeper hamster but there is a limit to the depth you have below the bore ... 150mm ). A lot of shooters have their gloved hand on the floor with the back of hand and palm at 90 degrees to the floor. So the padded bit from the wrist to little finger is in contact with the ground. The rifle then rests on the area between the first finger and thumb. That hand position gives far more height so the rifle will be higher, so the scope may have to be lower to give that same comfortable neck, head and eye position.

    Like all things HFT ... you get started in the sport and start enjoying it ... then you experiment and find out what suits you best.

    Just enjoy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  15. Mammoth

    Mammoth Unusual Targetmaker :)

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    Dont take me wrong guys, but I think that HFT lost the "H" somewhere in forest... ;)
    Glove on ground with hamster on it and then butt lay on matt - its closer to Field Target Ground Rest than to Hunter Field Target..
    Especially, when the target been placed on position which was forcing people to lift rifle up on peg - then big cry is spreading between teams about it.. :/
    "Maaarshaaall!! I can see some grass in my scope!! and little leaf obstructing my KZ..!! " rather just go off the peg or lift up a bit..

    Thats why I like the Emley Extreme ones ;)
     
    Bensile and Adam like this.
  16. Kylenella

    Kylenella New Member

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    Hi Dan

    Where about is the HFT meet at Baldwin's gate. I shoot at Baldwin's gate shooting club but there is no HFT there??
     
  17. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    Kylenella

    You've opened up a thread and quoted a post from 2009.

    A number of shooters used to shoot HFT style courses at Baldwin's Gate shooting club several years ago on some Sunday mornings. It used to be the shooting grounds on the left heading towards the Swan with Two Necks pub. There was a clubhouse and a 25, 50 and maybe 100m ranges. You put a flag up by the entrance when a shoot was on.

    There has been no HFT there for a number of years. The local HFT gang moved to Kingsley, where I believe you've already been or are aware of.
     
  18. Kylenella

    Kylenella New Member

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    I shoot at Baldwin's gate, mainly 10m.

    I went to Kingsley last Sunday and it was brilliant.
     
  19. EDBOC

    EDBOC New Member

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    The pdf seems to be a dead link now...
     

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