Pro Target worries.

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by Weevie, May 9, 2010.

  1. Weevie

    Weevie Banned

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    Went up to the Brum Shooting Centre yesterday. Thought I'd try the pellet sizer Ryan lent me.

    Fortunately I was the only one on the 50M range so I could move forward to 35 yards to zero before I tried the grouping with the sized pellets.

    Unfortunately I noticed something that I'd seen before but had put down to wind on the Furnace Mill zero range. This was on an indoor 50m range.

    I'm getting regular shots to the right, say three shots on crosshairs, then a couple to the right, then another couple on crosshairs then one to the right, then one on and then one to the right ad frustratium. The distance the shot is going right is between half and three quarters of a mildot at 35 yards.

    Now I know what you're thinking. Parallax error. Well I dialled in the best I could with the EB Snipers sidewheel and did the head-bobbity-bobbity thing and I couldn't see any noticeable error. Certainly not half a dot's worth.

    I was prone on a Caldwell front shooting bag and a rear shooting bag so I'm not moving the rifle (in fact it's the same setup I used to use when the S400 was printing 1/3 to 1/2 inch groups at 55 yards at the Brum shooting centre and notice I said it was the rifle making those groups, not me! :eek::D). Using JSB Exact 4.52s which it seems to prefer.

    Can't see any marks on the stripper (although I did forget to try it without :eek:).

    Chrono'ing the rifles shows excellent consistency (+ or - 2 fps over a charge with weighed pellets).

    Cleaning the barrel has never made any difference to the grouping on this particular rifle (on my S400 it did need it after a while) although I might try giving it a really intensive clean with the VFG kit I've got.

    I'm minded to give Dave a ring at SCR and get him to take a look and also get it serviced whilst I'm there. Sure, the rifle's probably accurate enough for HFT but when a rifle can just about manage the odd 1/2 inch group at 35 yards it'll damage most people's confidence.

    Whaddya reckon?
    (I'm just waiting for Chris and Ryan to tell me to stop whining):D
     
  2. CharlieM

    CharlieM Spring Time

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    I've experienced identical effects with strippers/brakes that aren't set at the right distance or haven't been that well thought out in design. They weren't clipping the pellet but actually caused the rifle to shift slightly resulting in pellets landing fine for elevation but not on windage and always to the same side. Didn't detect it so noticably at less than 50yrd or so. Deinately worth a few shots without the stripper.
     
  3. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Steve give it a try without the stripper and also with a level on it as well.;):)
     
  4. Weevie

    Weevie Banned

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    For a coulple of the groups I did check my cant (snigger! :D) and it seemed okay but I'll dig out the mount mounted level too.

    Wish I had an indoor facility closer but i guess I'll be back up at the BSC this Tuesday evening. If anybody fancies coming along it's a pretty useful place to do some wind free-testing. It's near the Jewellry Quarter.

    Thanks go to Ryan for not visibly rolling his eyes and tutting :eek::D
     
  5. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    i'd say lose the stripper and see what happens... i'd give good money that it could be clipping or getting close to doing so.
     
  6. raisedbybrocks

    raisedbybrocks Member

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    Mine also becomes very pellet fussy if i clean the barrel.
    Also I tend to get a few shots low on fps between 200 and 190 bar. So I generally fill to 180 to be safe.:) I know it can put in 8mm groups at 45 yards when I do my bit. I'm experimenting with pellet sizing to, still inconclusive:p
    Weighing pellets makes a huge difference in the PT for me, more so than in my other guns. ;)
     
  7. JamesO

    JamesO Active Member

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    I'd go with the 'canting' theory.

    I suspect the scope is mounted much higher on the Pro T in relation to the barrel than on the mentioned s400 which will make the effects of any cant more noticable.

    Bench rest does my head in, thereofore I try to avoid it.
     
  8. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    I go with stripper, but as said could possibly be cant. Get the level out and do one thing at a time until you find the problem, even pellets!:eek:
     
  9. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Wow, I share something in common with Ozzy, shame it's not standing technique!:D:D
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2010
  10. rich

    rich Active Member

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    You mentioned the pellet sizer. Do you only experience this problem when using sized pellets?

    Maybe the sizing is not treating every pellet the same.
     
  11. Weevie

    Weevie Banned

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    Nah. I never even got to trying the sizer. I was just trying to zero at 35 yards. I wasn't going to waste the sized pellets at 35 yards. Not as much of a tedious job as weighing but still not something I'd do for a hobby! :D

    As for the suggestions of cant (and it's nice to hear that word in this context, I grew up in South East London! :D), the bad shots were pretty much in line elevation wise with the good 'uns. With cant would you not expect to see a vertical displacement as well?

    Seriously if anybody from the West Mids area fancies a shoot I'll be going up to the BSC Tuesday evening. It's at Hockley Port (just round the corner from Winson Green HMP! :eek:) and it's open 7 'till 10 and costs a fiver. I'll be there from 7. Google Birmingham Shooting Centre for postcode.

    It's nice to be able to shoot at 55 yards indoors (there's also a 25 metre range that you can stretch to 35 yards if nobody else is shooting).
     
  12. rich

    rich Active Member

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    It might be down to the fact that the Pro-T requires you to thumb the pellets in, and maybe there is an inconsistency to be found.

    Sizing the pellets ought to make them easier to load, and reduce any potential source of variation here, but sized pellets will probably fly lower.
     
  13. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Whats 3/4 of a mildot at 35yds in real measurements?

    A little cant (yes, im from south london as well ;)) might not lead to vertical displacement that you will notice if it's only moving sideways a tad...
     
  14. Weevie

    Weevie Banned

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    Um from memory (which is where I'm getting this stuff from...Tuesday I'll take the callipers! :D) it was about a couple of pellet widths, could be wrong.

    I'd fire up Chairgun but I'm in Ubuntu at the mo' and I can't be bothered to re-boot into XP (and don't say Wine 'cos I can't seem to get all the necessary libraries loaded:p)

    ...

    ...

    ...

    Okay now I'm in XP and Chairgun says that to get .4" of horizontal displacement you need only 6 degrees of cant which only produces 0.022" of vertical displacement.

    Hmmm... that's not much but looking at my trusty protractor it does seem like something I'd notice if I was looking for it (and I was).

    Also, I've just taken the stripper off and actually bothered to unscrew the cone this time rather than just looking at it's 'crown' and I can just make out some marks on one side of the inside of the cone. They're very faint but there are there. Could just be crud mind you....

    ...also to keep the stripper, which wasn't a perfect fit on the shroud, from wobbling there was some very thin electrical tape wrapped round the shroud, which I removed after the gun got a soaking. To replace it I used PTFE tape...

    which has since disintegrated....

    ...I think I'd better try it without the stripper.

    Jeez...this shooting larks a PITA sometimes isn't it?!
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2010
  15. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    When I bolted the march on recently, I took it up to meon... i'd got it level outdoors, but wanted to nail the windage indoors... Steph commented that the table wasn't level, but i threw it out there anyway... got it spot on... jumped into sitting position and it was off... by about 3/4 MOA or something like that... just the cant had thrown it about 1-2 pellet splashes at 33 yds.

    Could very well be that... or the other stuff :D

    (you could always just tape a level on... just take a few shots and look after a shot to see if you're cant is at least consistent)
     
  16. Baltipal

    Baltipal New Member

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    Where's the 'Brum Shooting Centre' ?
     
  17. JAGXKRS

    JAGXKRS Sparky's Bodyguard

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    In Brum, no don't thank me its a service I provide for free:p:p:p:D:D
     
  18. Weevie

    Weevie Banned

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    It's where the green arrow is:

    http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=52.491503,-1.924057&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.913312,39.506836&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=52.490908,-1.923192&spn=0.002371,0.004823&z=18

    The pink marker is the nearest address I guess for the postcode B18 7RL which is actually the dead end of Mearse Close :rolleyes:.

    Best bet is to find Mearse close (it should be on your left if you're going the right way down Crabtree Road) and then carry on to the end of Crabtree Road where it junctions All Saints Road. At that junction you'll see a sharp right into what appears to be an industrial site.

    Go up that sharp right and then turn right just before the big Victorian Warehouse building and go round the corner. You'll see a sort of playing field on your right and the big victorian warehouse building on your left. Park up next to the building and go up and ring the bell (it's marked the range bell). The door will then be opened unto you...probably by Tony.

    If you fancy popping along on Tuesday I'm going to be there about 7ish.
     
  19. Weevie

    Weevie Banned

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    Yeah , I'll be taking a scope level with me if I can find it. If not I've got a crappy plastic spirit level that I can break the bubbles out of.
     
  20. Weevie

    Weevie Banned

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    I have found that you do have to make sure the pellet is well seated to get any kind of consistency. That's something I tend to do on instinct now! ;)
     

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