Pellets don't rise!

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by KeithW, Nov 8, 2019.

  1. Emma

    Emma Active Member

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    O M G
    I wish I hadn't shown this to Darren - it's as bad as br3xit!

    The Chadbourne household is in an uproar again LOL.

    I love you guys !!

    P.S. I just take whatever Brian Samson says as fact :D
     
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  2. LewisYorks

    LewisYorks New Member

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    Look, guns are magic and the laws of gravity and curvature of space time don't apply to pellets.

    So stop trying to mess with it and carry on as before.
     
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  3. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Quite right too :D
     
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  4. Darron

    Darron Dwarf Slayer

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    And how do you explain thermal lift then?
     
  5. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    The amount of thermal lift occurs at a rate which is equal to the inverse of talent :D
     
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  6. MikeSeago

    MikeSeago Sloth like member

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    Maybe I am being too simplistic but my understanding is that if a pellet is dropped vertically from the same height as a pellet is fired from a horizontal barrel then both pellets will hit the ground at the same time. Gravity acts on both pellets in the same way. Therefore if the pellet rises when it leaves the barrel (horizontal) this can no longer be a true statement and therefore it cannot rise after leaving the barrel. Barrel flip is another matter totally as the action of the barrel moving upwards imparts an extra directional energy to the pellet that is not part of this argument.
    Just sayin
    Mike
     
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  7. Jesim1

    Jesim1 Active Member

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    A very reasonable assumption Mike, and I'd 99% agree with you except for in the example used by the OP the gun is not genuinely horizontal, it's aiming up slightly as all guns do to account for the natural trajectory of the pellet, so the pellet rises because it's being fired upwards at a very slight angle, not to do with any other kind of force.
     
  8. Ballisticboy

    Ballisticboy Active Member

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    The dropped pellet will hit the ground slightly earlier than the fired pellet. This is because as the trajectory curves down towards the ground an element of the drag force acts in the vertical plane slightly reducing the effect of the pellet weight. If the pellet is spinning there is also a very slight effect of the vertical yaw of repose produced by the gyroscopic response to the spin drift angle. The myth that they will hit the ground at the same time has come from people forgetting about air flow and experiments carried out by the ignorant with inadequate instrumentation as seen on television. Using trajectory models such as Chairgun it is easy to see the effect of drag by looking at the pellet drop and the time of flight.

    If you don't believe a pellet can have vertical forces acting on it due to yaw then it cannot have any other sideways forces such as those which produce spin drift or stabilising moments, neither can there be any vertical effect of a sidewind, but all these forces do exist.
     
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  9. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    As the person who wrote the article, I am well aware that airgun pellet do not create lift, however, I am writing articles that are aimed at new people coming into the sport and do not have advanced degree's in aerodynamics and stating that pellets rise when leaving the barrel is sort of correct and is a way of explain trajectory.

    If you place a rifle in a clamp with a barrel that is 100% level and a scope that is 100% level the pellet will never get close to the crosshairs and you will not be able to zero the rifle. So, some gun's have a barrel that is angled up, some have a scope rail that is angled down, this way the pellet and the crosshairs will intersect and you can zero the rifle.

    I explained this to Keith at Nomads.
     
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  10. Jesim1

    Jesim1 Active Member

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    Don't expect to come on here with your rational and intelligent explanations of your own work just because your the author, we're having none of it - quick lads - burn him :eek: :D
     
  11. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    If you turn that turret shaped thing on the top of your scope, you'll find that you'll be able to zero your scope without having to find a gun with a bent barrel ;)
     
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  12. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    I always wondered what those things were Brian :)
     
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  13. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I know you HFTer's don't use them much, so it's easy to forget what they do :D :D
     
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  14. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    Rational and intelligent, you don't know me very well :)
     
  15. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    The thing to remember with airgun magazines is, each magazine and each writer is aimed at a different section of the market.

    If you want in-depth, postdoctoral, NASA level information then you read stuff by Jim Tyler.

    If you want top end scope reviews then phill Price is your man.

    However if you want fairly complex ideas made easy to understand, that is where I come in. My job with a AirGunner is to write pieces that are hopefully entertaining, and are hopefully useful for anyone from 8 to 80 and of any experience level.

    I've been doing this for 11 years and I like to think that in this time I have helped a few people out and not put anyone wrong, although, I do still get abuse for drowning an Airwolf in a swimming pool.
     
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  16. Jesim1

    Jesim1 Active Member

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    That was epic - obviously just a headline grabber in the day, but probably the only image I can actually remember from an air gun mag - well done that man :D
     
  17. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    HFTer’s forgetting what turrets do...I always thought they didn’t know how to use them!
     
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  18. dave croucher

    dave croucher FT, the sport where simple becomes complicated

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    Well i found that they do fall, twice today!!
     
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  19. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    Tony Belas told me that the conformal coating on an Airwolf was so good you could chuck it in a swimming pool, so it was, Challenge accepted sir :)
     

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  20. what barn door

    what barn door Now them tin chickens are going to get it....

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    Are people still reading magazines? I suppose it's one way of making hamster nesting material.
     

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