Pellet pushing

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by hmangphilly, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. mike

    mike Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    southampton
    Club:
    Meon Valley Airgun Club MVAC
    Hi Phil,

    I was going to wait until after Sunday when I am up at Bisley shooting in the last round of the Southern Hunters, but I did do some power testing the other day with some interesting results.

    As you can see on the first photo Phil re-machined the lead-in after the original one was found to be off center

    20190402_135641.jpg 20190402_140524.jpg 20190402_140625.jpg 20190402_140701.jpg


    The second photo is off the new slightly shorter PPP (Phils Pellet Pusher;))

    Third photo shows how much easier it is to thumb in the pellets thanks to the new lead-in.

    Fourth is how far the pellets sat with the PPP.

    The next photo is after putting about 20 pellets through the rifle, if you look closely you can see some slight rub marks on the inside bottom part of the pellet valve sealing stabilizer housing ting-a-majig (sealing bolt?)

    20190402_141322.jpg

    Decided to fit an even smaller PPP
    20190402_143856.jpg

    With the smaller PPP I didn't resit the barrel further down as it looked good as is.
    20190402_144132.jpg

    Unfortunately the bolt still felt like it was crunching when closing it and it took more effort to fully close it home and to release it, it also look's like the PPP was still causing some pellet flaking.
    20190402_145750.jpg

    So have decided to go back to thumbing in the pellets as the bolt feels normal and not being forced to close. 20190402_150655.jpg

    The power was set with the longer PPP
    and 10 pellets were used for each string and came straight from the tin.

    Long PPP
    High..788...11.58
    Low..781... 11.38
    Spread 7 .... .20
    Av .....783.....11.45

    Short PPP
    H....776.....11.24
    L....766......10.95
    S.... 10 ...... .29

    Short PPP with the barrel re-ajusted
    H.....778.....11.31
    L.....768......11.00
    S...... 10 ....... .31
    A.... 774......11.18

    Without a PPP
    H...782.....11.43
    L...775......11.19
    S.... 7 ...... .24
    A...778.....11.29

    I reajusted the power to where I know that the reg seems to work at its most consistent and just thumbed the pellets home.
    H....787.....11.56
    L... 783......11.44
    S.... 4 ..... .12
    A...785 ....11.48

    as you can see the work that Phil has done seems to be working and the down range grouping has improved a great deal, with the pellets hitting one after another bang on the mark with extremely tight groups at 45y and a very straight flight, before the barrel work the goup's at 45y were good but rhe pellets would be very slightly either side of the cross hair line, with odd pellets flying off to the right.

    Now looking foward to giving it propper try out at Bisley.:D
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
    subaru swift, C.Eaton and hmangphilly like this.
  2. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Can't Re Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,575
    Location:
    wimborne
    Ta Mike
    I wonder if Im still a bit long on the large shoulder .
    This flaking is a worry . Need to address that
    I can increase the chamfer a little and polish the leade ( didn't do this barrel for a reason . you can see in the first pic ) .let us know how bisley goes


    Edit

    Mike I had a thought do you remember that the outside of the barrel was not Concentrix with the new Pip?

    This may be the reason for the touching at the bottom of the stabiliser hole .

    it might be worth rotating the barrel at some point to see if this stops this contact

    I might end up replacing the step shoulders for one continual taper


    All good fun
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
    subaru swift and C.Eaton like this.
  3. subaru swift

    subaru swift I don't have a solution, I just love the problem.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    stoke on trent & bromsgrove
    Club:
    Kingsley HFT & Furnace mill.
    Well, I was using the 3.8mm mk1 that you sent to me in my FT steyr well, it's set up for HFT with a Steyr 450mm black barrel that I got 2nd hand off this forum.
    The rifle grouped fine up to 45y max the club I went to in some light wind.

    Then I swapped the PP (pellet pusher) to the 2.8mm mk2 PP ( Size of the PP might be off due to me using a cheapish digital caliper). It grouped bad at 35y zero & 45y, so i moved the barrel so it might have sealed better, the power was about the same 11.30 or so.
    But the rifle was like a shotgun most of the time! at mixed ranges form 8y to 45y on the same day & even the same sort of wind, if not a bit less wind at times.
    FT 2.88m pellet pusher.jpg 2.8mm 1.jpg

    Hence, I then installed the 3.4mm mk2 PP, & moved the barrel to get a good seal again. The rifle came back on par if not better than the 3.8mm mk1 PP! Hence, I'm going to use this 3.4mm one in this back up steyr for a bit now.
    Barrel lead in (sorry forgot the real name) & rifling: 3.4mm Pellet pusher (1).jpg 3.4mm Pellet pusher (2).jpg
    Pellet just put in: 3.4mm Pellet just thumbed in.jpg

    Pellet pushed in using the PP: Pellet pusher 3.4mm used.jpg 3.4mm Pellet pusher used 3.4mm.jpg


    I might try a 3,4mm mk2 PP in my steyr HFT 2014 rifle what's got a steyr 'select' barrel on it as that ones got a 3.8mm mk1 PP fitted in it.
    HFT stabilizer & pellet pusher (3).jpg muzzle of barrel close up.jpg

    Can 0.4mm of a mm really make that much difference???? :confused:
    Maybe I need to test indoors somewhere with the rifle in a vice to take out human error?.

    Ps can the pellet flakes be a bit of pellet dust in the skirts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
    C.Eaton likes this.
  4. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,373
    Location:
    Ardboe, Co.Tyrone.
    Club:
    Back Hill Ballistics; DFTC; Nelson FTC
    The Mk1 thumb has worked well for me
     
  5. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Can't Re Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,575
    Location:
    wimborne
    It's Ok for you with magic thumbs .
     
  6. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    13,080
    Location:
    New Forest, Hampshire
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    It's been sized by being stuck somewhere.
     
    Yoeri_B likes this.
  7. blacklab

    blacklab Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    672
    Location:
    pontypridd
    Club:
    nelson
    is that why air arms are more accurate than steyrs cause they have a probe
     
    FTJimH and SteveC200 like this.
  8. mike

    mike Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    southampton
    Club:
    Meon Valley Airgun Club MVAC
    Not going to bite!:confused::confused:
     
  9. RichWafta

    RichWafta Second time around

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    180
    Location:
    Newport
    Club:
    Quarry, Castleton, Nelson, East Devon
    Now the Inters are over, I was able to try out the PPPs that Phil sent me.
    Started by putting the Steyr over the chrono without the pusher fitted and got an average reading of 769fps with a deviation of 8 over 20 shots
    Fitted the 2.5mm and average was 764, deviation 12fps
    3.0mm gave average 767, deviation 14
    3.5mm gave average 765, deviation 11.

    I was hoping to test the PPP for grouping as well, because this is what I'm really interested in, but the two chances I had to get to the range had winds blowing all over the place, so had to scrap the cards; I will try again though.
    So what did I learn from this? not a lot! the 3.5mm PPP had been slightly damaged in the post and the end was partly crushed, so although I was able to straighten the end, it isn't pushing evenly. The other two seem to be seating as designed.
    The power hasn't been significantly affected, which I'm pleased about, but I do want to see what gains I can get down range.
    I will keep you updated Phil and thanks for the PPPs
     
  10. C.Eaton

    C.Eaton Confirmed Anschutz Nut...

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,594
    Location:
    Hockley, UK
    Club:
    Springfield / TEGC
    Interesting concept...
     
  11. broekzwans

    broekzwans New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NL
    I use a leade-in with a rather low angle, only a couple of degrees. Low angles will make a nice and gradual taper in the lead pellet before being permanently formed while high angles will squeeze the lead away and in most cases you will see an edge behind the land marks on the pellet of curled-up/pushed-away lead. If this lead is being scraped off you will notice a higher fowling rate on the beginning of the barrel than what should be normal.

    [​IMG]

    The pellet seated by hand sits almost flush with the beginning of the barrel:

    [​IMG]

    The seater (I have a steyr without the stabilizer in the bolt so I used a pin probe):


    Because the pellet is already seated in the barrel the pin probe will push it in straight


    And as far as macro photos are possible with my phone this is what the pellet looks like after seating:


     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    Pepone, C.Eaton, hmangphilly and 2 others like this.
  12. mike

    mike Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    southampton
    Club:
    Meon Valley Airgun Club MVAC
    Great Photos, how do you find the rifle shoots without the stablizer and with the probe fitted?

    Now after shooting in a couple of comps over the last two Sunday's, I can confirm that the work Phil had done to the lead-in on the barrel has had a positive effect, no longer am I seeing the number of high and right flyers (about 5 a round) and the odd dropping shot, and now have a much tighter grouping at 45y, with pallets landing on the reticle line:)

    The rifle also has a lot smoother shot cycle without the very slight feeling of recoil/muzzle flip.

    I can only put this down to being able to sit the pellet in slightly further and having the lead-in machined squarely thank's to Phils attention to detail.

    With the old lead-in, the pellet skirt sat fractionally proud of the barrel and needed more energy to push the pellet into the barrel, possibly shaving the skirt of the pellet, thus causing the inconsistent pellet flights.

    now that part is sorted (shame the squishy soft Muppet behind the trigger can't match the rifles abilities :confused:) next up will be more PPP testing:D

    ATB
    Mike.
     
    C.Eaton likes this.
  13. broekzwans

    broekzwans New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NL
    Seating depth is about 3mm and the velocity measurements with spread:
    JSB: average = 240 m/s (787 fps), es = 3 m/s (10 fps) and sd = 1 m/s (3 fps)
    Qiang Yuan: average = 241.6 m/s (793 fps), es = 2 m/s (7 fps) and sd = 0.6 m/s (2 fps)

    The pellet is seated just past the complete lead-in
     
  14. broekzwans

    broekzwans New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    NL
    I shoots great without the stabilizer, I barely have any recoil (I must say say that I'm used to my 75 ft/lbs FX Crown so compared to that there is no movement :p ). I know the stabilizer should be able to shut down the recoil to almost none but the ones I shot with feel just like mine so maybe their stabilizers weren't optimized?!?

    I also noticed that after fitting the seater the rare flyers pretty much disappeared and it shot more consistent. It also fouled a lot less at the throat which also decreases the need for cleaning.
     
    mike likes this.
  15. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Can't Re Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,575
    Location:
    wimborne
    Super pics .
     
  16. Ratinator

    Ratinator member of the 39 club , twice

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    2,856
    Location:
    stourport
    Club:
    Millride FTC / Nomads
    A little update
    I still have the original pellet pusher installed that Phil sent me and it’s bedded in nicely . The 2 smaller inserts will be trialed shortly in my lg100.
    I have switched to express pellets and the results over the chrono are stunning , single figures.
    The express are 5.55mm in length which I’m guessing seats them perfectly judging by the chrono results.
     
    RobF likes this.
  17. subaru swift

    subaru swift I don't have a solution, I just love the problem.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    stoke on trent & bromsgrove
    Club:
    Kingsley HFT & Furnace mill.
    My pellet pushers that you've made are going strong still,,,

    I've replaced the O-ring on them a couple of times as i don't wash or lube the pellets that i use, so the O-ring gets a tad dirty fast o_O.

    Are you making any more of these? Happy to try different length's :rolleyes: of these Pellet Pushers.
     
    mike likes this.
  18. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Can't Re Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,575
    Location:
    wimborne
    Hi Team ,

    Yes can do another batch ,

    let us know what lengths you would like
     
  19. subaru swift

    subaru swift I don't have a solution, I just love the problem.

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    stoke on trent & bromsgrove
    Club:
    Kingsley HFT & Furnace mill.
    Hi Boss man :D
    What about a 3mm, 4mm, 5mm, 6mm?


     
  20. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Can't Re Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    2,575
    Location:
    wimborne
    i'll see what i can do kenny
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice