Pellet pushing

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by hmangphilly, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. nemesis

    nemesis 55yrd standing expert, or was it 8 or 9?

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    Does this sit behind the o ring or from inside the stabiliser
     
  2. C.Eaton

    C.Eaton Confirmed Anschutz Nut...

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    Great idea, reminds me of Lord Briscoe and his freebie Airgun World pellet seater which he tried for a laugh and actually found considerably increased accuracy in his Steyr.
     
  3. subaru swift

    subaru swift I don't have a solution, I just love the problem.

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    Looks a cool idea, i take it they just push in the stabilizer?
    I've got 2 steyrs lg110's, 1 HFT from 2014 & an FT from about the same year, hence if you like i will try one or two of them thingy me bobs
    :)
     
  4. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    Yes sits between o ring and stabiliser .

    remove barrel
    remove stabiliser
    pop the oring out
    fit to the pusher probe
    push the pair of them into the stabiliser with your barrel

    rebuild as normal

    it'll look like this but hopefully cleaner

    pellet push probe.jpg
     
  5. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    std steyr barrel leade is deeper

    mine
    518D25FB-C282-4C3A-A964-E0425D0E4DB0.jpg

    std steyr

    E07D6880-1373-43C6-8C66-FF80A27E5084.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  6. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    Ok
     
  7. blacklab

    blacklab Active Member

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    the beeman pellet seat always made springers increase in pwr one round end and the other pointed
     
  8. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    Fellas / Team
    Could you pm me some postage details please
     
  9. mike

    mike Active Member

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    Found this thread very interesting as my Steyr is fitted with an HW100 barrel, the pellet always sits proud of the end.

    20190309_150920.jpg
    So I thought I would have some fun and find out if pushing the pellet in further would make any difference.

    20190309_154044.jpg
    The pellets used were AA field 8.44 and were taken straight out of the tin (no weighing)

    The results over the chrono were very similar, with the pushed in pellets registering only a slightly higher reading but had a fraction of a bigger spread over the 10 shots

    Standard set up.
    FPS / FPE
    High 789 / 11.60
    Low 783 / 11.44
    Spread 6 / .16
    Average 786 / 11.51

    With the pellet pushed in
    FPS / FPE
    High 791 / 11.67
    Low 782 / 11.40
    Spread 9 / .27
    Average 788 / 11.57

    Accuracy wise the pellets still grouped in very tightly but the pushed in group were just off to the right of center at 30y and almost 1/2md at 45y ?

    For me there is no benefit from pushing the pellet in further, I have also noticed that sizing my pellets to use with this barrel makes the grouping open up and start to resemble a shotgun pattern at 45y and over.

    ATB
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  10. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    Very short lead on that barrel Mike try pushing the pelleting not quite so far

    However your experiments and results do suggest that the starting point of the palate can influence the PO I

    If that is so it would follow that a reliable and repeatable start point would be a desirable thing

    Whether that start point is measured from the front of the palate or the back is a different matter but first things first
     
  11. C.Eaton

    C.Eaton Confirmed Anschutz Nut...

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    Great photography...:)
     
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  12. Ratinator

    Ratinator 77.74

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    View attachment 40823
    So I thought I would have some fun and find out if pushing the pellet in further would make any difference.

    View attachment 40822
    The pellets used were AA field 8.44 and were taken straight out of the tin (no weighing)

    Is it possible that Mike’s testing is not a good comparison to your additional probe , Phil ?

    From what I can see all that has changed is the distance between the breach and the skirt of the pellet , surely your addition is introducing the air directly into the skirt of the pellet , reducing air loss before pellet movement ?

    I also think that doing any form of string test over the chrono with unweighed pellets is pointless . Pellet weight difference can have a huge impact on FPS.
     
  13. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    Mike's system acheives much the same as my gadget Simon

    My pusher does not form a seal . It is only intended to position the pellet into the rifling . I guess air charge might be slightley biased to the centre of the pellet at the very beginning.

    The plan is ,
    ...to keep the pellet as square to the rifling as possible ....hence why I'm pushing around the outer edge . Sure we are hoping that the stabiliser is in line too , I get that.
    I'm kind of hoping that any slight error will self align by following the leade . I 'm pretty confident in both my own and the factory leades.

    ...to seat the pellet at a consistent depth . As in Mikes pic , thumbed pellets have the potential of sitting a bit proud if tight , or further in if loose .
    It might not even matter for all I know yet , but it does make sense to me that consistency in pellet loading surely can't hurt .

    There's the added consideration that a tight pellet recieves a tiny bit of re sizing . I know its only a mm or so but you never know .

    I'm posting these out to the field test team today so you can have a play .


    For fitting .

    Remove stabiliser oring
    Remove or loosen barrel
    Fit stabiliser o ring to pusher
    Fit pusher c/w oring into breech
    Use barrel to insert pusher into stabilser
    Rebuild

    You can't get away without moving the barrel forward as the lip of the pusher is 1/2 mm thick . That's 'a lot' in barrel o ring fit terms.
     
  14. C.Eaton

    C.Eaton Confirmed Anschutz Nut...

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    I remember Chris Briscoe with his early barley twist Steyr.
    There was quite a leade into the rifling on his barrel, about 8-10mm from memory so essentially the pellet was jumping into the rifling. He found that by pushing the pellet further in to fully engage with the rifling accuracy was a lot better, he just used a freebie pellet pusher from an airgun magazine and it worked perfectly.
     
  15. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    That's the entire theory Colin

    Rob and Monty found it when we were banging our heads with those 'cz' barrels a year ago .

    Our Russian chum seemed to find something worthwhile too .

    So why not ?

    The current steyr Lw ? barrels have quite a long blank leade before the rifling starts too . Not 8 mm though ,that's huge
     
  16. C.Eaton

    C.Eaton Confirmed Anschutz Nut...

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    Yea the leade was weird on his barrel, almost like someone had deliberately ground down the rifling as it was there but so feint you could hardly see it. Pellets tended to fall back out if not pushed in so very loose.
    On the other hand my Steyr needed a hammer to seat the pellets as there was no leade at all, just straight cut across.
    Made trying to load in Winter even more of a misery.
     
  17. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Floppy Quick Phil

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    What do you reckon the chances of one of these getting fitted on the Rock without any thing catastrophic happening ?

    should I save my stamp ?
     
  18. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Put it in a bottle (glass) and chuck it in the sea and let nature take it's course :D
     
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  19. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Yeah my old LG100 barley was like that, so loose you could see free space all around the skirt. I found if I pressed it gently with my thumb the head would just start to seat so it held in place with the skirt being central. God knows if it actually stayed centred with 92 bar up its backside and I did wonder about it but it didn't seem to matter downrange as it was a tack driver with any batch of JSB I tried.
     
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  20. mike

    mike Active Member

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    Think Phil is on to something here.

    Following Phil's advice about not seating the pellet in to far, I decided to have another go and came with this (very crude) pellet prob that would not only allow me to ajust the depth of the pellet but also be able to seat the pellet squarely.

    20190314_212744.jpg

    And with a bit of fine ajustment ended up with the pellet sitting just inside the barrel.

    20190314_211642.jpg

    And the results were very positive, I checked the rifle's power before I started just to confirm that it hadn't crept up and all was good, Still running at just over 11.4

    The results from a 10 shot string with the pellets seated in using my seating tool are.
    Fps / Fpe
    High 797 / 11.86
    Low 789 / 11.60
    Spread .8 / .26
    Average 793 / 11.73

    The pellets were straight from the tin and if weighed then the spread would have been a lot lower.

    As you can see form the results that there is an increase in power just by simply seating the pellet a fraction more.

    Also this time I didn't suffer with the POI shifting to the right, I put that down to being able to push the probe in squarely to the barrel.

    As to grouping, absolutely spot on with 8 shots all within a 5p group at 45y.

    ATB
    Mike.
     
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