NSRA consultation on membership

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by RobF, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    “Oh no membership is decreasing, it’s hitting our income.”
    “I know, let’s squeeze more money out of the remaining members”
    ...
    “Oh no, membership is decreasing even faster...”

    Death spiral. :rolleyes:
     
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  2. DeanB

    DeanB Active Member

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    I agree with many of the points already raised. The NSRA seems to want to get extra money from plinkers, and FT, and HFT shooters without offering any additional benefits. Also, the presentation looks desperate - an organisation trying to exist without any real forward look.
     
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  3. Bezzer

    Bezzer Active Member

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    So the majority of HFT club shoots are Open, allowing and encouraging unaffiliated new shooters to attend, and they do. The way this comes across is all shoots/ competitions are closed so only members of the NSRA could shoot. There's no way a new shooter would fork out £35 just to try it out.
     
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  4. Ceathreamhnan

    Ceathreamhnan WHFTA Champion 2013

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    A new, try-out. shooter wouldn't be a club member, and it would seem that this would only apply to club members. As pointed out above, the club would still have to have its own liability insurance in addition to individual club members belonging to NSRA.
     
  5. Yorkshiretea

    Yorkshiretea B Grade Bandit

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    This thread is interesting, pretty much everyone has spotted the NSRA doesn't have a business plan, took their eye off the ball ten years ago and are now asking everyone else to bail them out. Rob will know better than me but I'm not aware of the NSRA doing anything for FT or HFT, ever. They should fire the person that released this to the public tho, that will make them at least one saving!

    The other interesting thing is, 5yrs ago this thread would have been 20 pages deep by now - which suggests to me those graphs in the PowerPoint may be correct and we have bigger issues than insurance.
     
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  6. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I used the same trend prediction mechanism they've used in their graphs and applied it to my average height from the age of 2, and I have discovered something alarming!... By the time I'm 70, I'll be over 8 feet tall.. So to prepare, I'll be extending the height of all of the ceilings in my house and all the door arches - I can't afford to do nothing given those predictions.
     
  7. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    It is suggested it would apply to probationers.
     
  8. Yorkshiretea

    Yorkshiretea B Grade Bandit

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    That's all well and good Bri but watch out for the Tall Tax :)
     
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  9. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I wouldn't mind paying a Tall Tax, so long as it goes towards the upkeep and modernisation of a building in Surrey that I have no interest in going to.
     
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  10. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    If I could persuade you that Surrey is old hat and Hampshire is where it's at I might be able to get Rich's suggestion tied in.

    (Rich I haven't responded yet because it's a big proposal and I haven't had the time)
     
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  11. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Rob it's not difficult really is it?

    A 200 member FT / HFT club currently pays £308 for NSRA membership - the most tangible benefit they receive is insurance.
    Under the new proposal, they want to increase that amount to £7,000 for the same benefits.

    It doesn't take a genius to work out what's going to happen does it?

    If the NSRA want to retain FT/HFT clubs, they could raise their club membership/affiliation fees to achieve that. So long as they are competitive on Insurance with other companies that offer the same insurance, then clubs will pay.

    It's not going to be too much of a challenge to beat an Insurance renewal quote of £7,000 when you're currently paying £308 is it.

    Under their current proposal they're going to lose all FT/HFT clubs.
     
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  12. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Is that where the NSRA are proposing the Commonwealth games shooting events will take place in 2022, or are they not bothering?
     
  13. JerryD

    JerryD Active Member

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    The one thing offered for the mandatory membership is personal liability insurance and equipment insurance - £308 only buys the club's insurance and 3rd party cover. That doesn't cover any individual's equipment. So there would be a benefit ( how many rely on their household cover for their kit?).

    Even if folks look at this as a benefit from this angle, only a few will go with it. Their plans assume no further loss in numbers - they have not factored in the response to this being rolled out. As said, their business plan is weak to non-existant.

    That beggars the question: if we simple souls can pick holes in it, why can't the team who put this plan together? Sooner rather than later what's apparent to us needs pointing out to them. If NSRA were to collapse due to reduction of numbers then the ft/hft clubs would be looking elsewhere for cover, because that's the primary reason most of us have any relationship with NSRA.

    Just looking at my own ft club's circumstances, we are based on a r/f range. What we observe of r/f is a blinkered view that the only "correct" form of shooting is rolling around wearing leather and punching holes in paper at 50m. B/R is reluctantly accepted - even though there seems to be more r/f shooting b/r than prone, and LSR is verboten, as the range committee do not consider it safe. Rather than trying to be more open and outward looking, they appear to be stuck with the idea that prone is "right" - how likely is that to increase numbers? If this is representative of the NSRA then it doesn't bode well.

    If NSRA want increased revenue they need to justify it: this means making shooters want to join them, which can only be done by offering what shooters want/need. Telling people they have to join will naturally cause them to resist, resulting in exactly the opposite of what this proposal is meant to address.
     
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  14. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    No I was more thinking that the EFTA HQ could be set up in my back garden in a new extension :D
     
  15. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Yep. That's exactly what I fed back to them day 1.

    Same with Bell Target.

    And probably the same with many multidiscipline clubs where smallbore competition shooters are in the minority.

    And probably the same with many shared resource clubs (some operate out of the same premises).
     
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  16. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    I completely agree. It has been pointed out to them in the past. As far as I know the BFTA were not consulted.
     
  17. rich

    rich Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what other airgun clubs charge for annual subs; ours at Shebbear amount to £30 a year plus £1 a time range fee. Our year starts (oddly) in February and anyone joining part way through the year pays a reduced annual subs based on the number of months or part months still to run, plus 1. The 1 extra month is like an admin fee of £2.50.

    Under this proposal a newbie wishing to join today would pay £7.50 at the current rates and £42.50 at the proposed rate. Further, as the NSRA year has just been rationalised to Jan-Dec, that £35 to the NSRA would run out in three weeks time, with the newbie paying them another £35 in January and his 2020 club subs of £30 in February.

    It will not be an easy time of year to recruit new members.
     
  18. Yorkshiretea

    Yorkshiretea B Grade Bandit

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    Let's face it Rich, it's never going to happen is it, this looks like the last nail for the NSRA and to be honest if this is how they see us, I'll be glad to see the back of them.
     
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  19. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Ok so there's 3 reasons why I think this isn't feasible.

    Firstly selling insurance is a regulated activity. So that means you need people with experience of those regulations so that insurance isn't misold (PPI anyone?) and the business conducted properly. I don't believe the BFTA have that experience at their disposal and if they did I'm not sure there wouldn't be a cost as professional indeminity cover in these areas isn't cheap for starters. Whomever was in the seat would also need to be sure that any cost savings weren't due to reduced cover. And they'd probably need to assess the sports needs so that it wasn't under insured either... if that's not correct at the moment costs could rise anyway.

    Why the BFTA? Because the EFTA is only a subset of the BFTA committee and only tasked with looking after the interests of the international English shooters abroad. So the EFTA is just the BFTA minus WAFTA and STS. So if the EFTA needed to fundamentaly change to accommodate a new structure then someone has to come up with all the paperwork to do that.

    Then there's the administrative load. A £20,000 insurance scheme involving 50+ clubs isn't something that's done in 5 minutes. If you speak to anyone involved with the last scheme they'll tell you the same.

    There's also the question which is somewhat reflected by the NSRA's situation. One of the reasons the BFTA scheme ended was the NSRA did it cheaper. Your region spearheaded that and provided the information to suggest other clubs and regions should follow your lead. That meant the BFTA scheme was redundant. If another competitor undercut the new BFTA/EFTA scheme would everyone leave again?

    Further there's the question of overall costs. If the sole reason clubs join is to save them money should people give their time for free just to satisfy that? If it's question of it providing support to the organisation 'for the greater good' so to speak, then why did BFTA card take up drop when people moved to the NSRA and the card wasn't deemed mandatory?

    Now I may have all that wrong and there might be someone out there who has the expertise and knowledge required, can shoulder the responsiblity and put the time in to make it happen and the clubs can save x% off a £2-300 bill each year and ensure it's more competative than any other equivalent offering. It would be great if I was. There's 10 clubs I know that would be ready to sign up.
     
  20. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    Is that the tried and true "pick an end value that shows what I want to show, then draw a straight line between the start point and that one"?
    I love the way the first graph starts at 1970 even thought they don't have data until 2005. Why? Because it compresses the X axis and makes the trend line look steeper.
     
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