North Oxon GP 3 2015

Discussion in '2015 Events' started by Yorkshiretea, May 31, 2015.

  1. Yorkshiretea

    Yorkshiretea B Grade Bandit

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    Just a few snaps from the day.

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  2. hw100kt

    hw100kt New Member

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    Great pics and some nice pics of interesting kneelers
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  3. TonyF

    TonyF SWEFTA FT Champion 2006

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    Nice pictures Martin, and some great ones of the tower of doom. :eek:
    Thanks for posting. :)
     
  4. buzz

    buzz Team Gilly

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    I thought the wrist should be unsupported in front of the knee:confused:
     
  5. hw100kt

    hw100kt New Member

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    And trailing foot in upright position from what I was told? And finger on trigger so not range finding :confused: I may be wrong
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2015
  6. RAIDER

    RAIDER Member

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    Not a response to any pictures shown here, but I hint from the last comment that infringements on the kneeling positions. I had seen at least two top shooters who are in the shake up most GP with their back of their hand sat on the knee. The only part of their hand that protruded out over the knee were their fingers. (Unless I'm missing the point)
    There's a way to cure it make all position shots standing. Marshals have a tough job without keeping an eye on the problems.
    I would not say that any of the things I had seen were intentional and perhaps over time this has happened.
    I'm never going to be a top shot but I feel for the guys playing the game and maybe missing targets that others are getting.
    Raider.
     
  7. john0neuk

    john0neuk Well-Known Member

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    Looked a great day out, great pics - sorry I didn't make it! The tower looked awesome......1 very novel!
    kr
     
  8. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    A common misconception. The hand just needs to be unsupported. This is because on a high kneeler, your hand would most likely be behind the knee, and it's the hand we're concerned with because the wrist is hard to define.
     
  9. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    It has to be vertically aligned when viewed from behind, not from the side. Again a common misconception.

    There kneeling rule guidance is here :

    http://www.thebfta.net/bfta-documents/82-rules-and-regulations

    You should be able to see on page 1 that the foot isn't vertical from the size, but is vertically aligned when viewed from the rear.

    If I was buddy marshalling, or marshalling, no matter who they were they'd get a warning without the clock stopping and if the shot was taken it would be a zero, if their hand was supported by the knee :)
     
  10. RAIDER

    RAIDER Member

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    Rob, I'm no expert on these thing I'm just going by the pictures on the BFTA site showing to rights and wrongs. I realise it's a very grey ares and to expect everyone to get it righ is near on impossible. When I'm shooting I'm as likely to be doing things wrong and don't know it.
    But I take your point.
    Raider
     
  11. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    No worries Jeremy. The sport does need to get marshalling better... but it needs to answer some fundamental questions to progress in my opinion.

    Who does it, buddy, line, chief marshall, even observers or shooters standing by from other sessions?

    Do we want to separate those who do from those that can't? Or how do we ensure all know the rules and feel empowered & motivated enough to see them applied? And how do we maintain the gentleman's sporting nature of the pastime?
     
  12. RAIDER

    RAIDER Member

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    Wow, that's a tough one. Personally I would either remove the kneelers or the rules have to be enforced by some one with the knowledge and the integrity to implement the rules and have guts enough to step in on any one what ever status they hold within the system. If you compete and your poor at kneelers as described do by the BFTA and your score is superseded by scores by others kneeling any old fashion then these are the ones I fell for.
    Raider.
     
  13. spiredude

    spiredude Member

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    On my kneeler the pici looks like the hampster is on my forearm but its not is actually running down the side of it ,, but my foot is straight lol
     
  14. hw100kt

    hw100kt New Member

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    I can not see any problems in your position, the one I am getting at shows the laces on the floor which in my mind means your foot is not upright which ever angle the picture is taken.

    Is it possible to have a marshal on each kneeling lane to enforce the rules.
     
  15. Martz

    Martz Member

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    Novel way to count your hits Rob, are the bigger crosses for reight hard targets? :D

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Mart.
     
  16. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    You do. Your partner ;)

    I marshalled Helen, and Helen marshalled Josh. I also hung around the two kneeling lanes on and off in the afternoon.

    [QUOTE]The Rear Foot, when viewed from the rear should be vertical in appearance. The Rear Foot is allowed to be angled so the ankle joint can be closer or further from the ground as desired. The toes can be bent or flat. If a bean bag is not present underneath the ankle joint, the ankle joint must not be in contact with the ground or appear to be in contact with the ground.[/QUOTE]

    If you use a bag under the ankle, you don't need a gap (because the bag is under the ankle). If you don't use a bag, a visible gap underneath the ankle means it's legal.

    The foot does not need to be upright. (that's why i said it's a misconception) It just needs not to be turned so your backside sits on your heel and not on the inside or outside of your foot.

    That's the rule.

    http://www.thebfta.net/attachments/article/158/BFTA Main Shoot Rules 2015.pdf

    (Section A, last page)

    Pics below

    http://www.thebfta.net/attachments/article/158/Kneeling 1.jpg

    http://www.thebfta.net/attachments/article/158/Kneeling 2.jpg

    That's why the BFTA published the above two links in addition to the rules so shooters can see what is and isn't considered legal. You can see the shooter on page 1 clearly doesn't have an upright foot. In the foot below, the foot appears vertical. Yet it's actually a shot of the shooter in the position directly above, not the one top right.

    I'm only posting because it's important that misconceptions about rules aren't challenged, and so that people know where the rules can be looked up for the future. Not because Helen will throw something at me if i've allowed her to do an illegal kneeler that someone's taken a photo of. :D

    But it does highlight the point about buddy marshalling.
     
  17. hw100kt

    hw100kt New Member

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    Cap in hand I think

    Shows that I need to re work my kneeling position as I am making it harder for myself by mis reading the rules and pictures.

    Thanks rob
     
  18. spiredude

    spiredude Member

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    Hw100kt , cheers chap ,, only reason I commented was cos mine did look a bit sus and it got me thinking so I thought , I,d just say it was clear of my arm thats all :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  19. swiftysue

    swiftysue A sip of tea in the ocean

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    More photos from NORTH OXON

    Here are a few photos ,and one of a tree that reminded me of Africa , think I had been out in the woods too long x :eek:o

    https://flic.kr/p/tJKFBQ
     
  20. holly

    holly Well-Known Member

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    Weep .

    I read some of these posts and weep . do the posters really think em through , i wonder . the more rules you bring in , the more complicated you make the sport of FT . the less people will want do it . all standers , no kneelers . why cos the rules on kneeling just make those kneelers harder . but why would you want make a rule to make it harder , when it was made easier a while back by saying that the longest kneeler could only be 45 ysards . but the rule now is misunderstood by many and since we do not have pro marshals , not enforced . why not go back to the old method . or better still . just tell em that they must kneel . foot up , foot down . on the bag ,off the bag , three points of contact , with either the bag or the ground . hand in front of the knee . take the ranges out to 55 yards with normal kills . and twenty five yards with 25 mil . you want a challenge kneeling . now that is a challenge . free style i call that , a bare minimum of rules . easily under stood . if moans were wanted the tower of doom is the one . as it was being just damp it was dodgy . if it had been wet and mud got on it from the competitors boots . it would have been dangerous . how many shooters had to be helped up and down the steps with there rifles ? at least one competitor shot the pole in front , cos they were on the short side shooting the one below . ??? HOLLY
     

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