Need some help designing a ret...

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by Anon, Jun 9, 2010.

  1. Anon

    Anon Non member

    Right, don't know how to do this so hence asking on here.

    I am trying to design a ret that I want for one of my scopes - I basicly want it to be very similar to the one I had in my Leup MKIV, one dot up and below centre cross and three left and right. The centre four dots bracketted a 55 yard target, then the dots on each horizontal allowed me to bracket a 50 yard kill and a 45 yard kill.

    Now the guy who is doing this ret has asked me to draw it him, in fact his email says "for the reticle, I need the drawing of the dots IN MOA" so can someone help me out with this, as I aint got a clue.


    regards,

    Matt
     
  2. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,104
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Could probably do it, but might not have time until i come back from hols after euskadi...
     
  3. Anon

    Anon Non member

    No rush for it Rob.

    What I am looking for is reasonable size dots but with spacing as above, scope is fixed mag 36*.

    regards,

    Matt
     
  4. sportsmatch

    sportsmatch Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    768
    Location:
    Blackwood S. Wales
    Club:
    Quarry Rifles
  5. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,104
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Ok, no probs... nudge me after euskadi.
     
  6. DazF

    DazF Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2009
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    wiltshire
    Club:
    Buckley Wood FTC and Oaktree FTC
    Has this got a weaver connection by chance Matt??

    Would be very interested if it is.


    Regards

    Daz
     
  7. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,620
    Location:
    Rotherham
    I'd be careful "designing" any ret too similar to a previous Premier ret as they have been known to get very unhappy when someone copies one of their rets, as Leupold can testify
     
  8. FGYT

    FGYT New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Dorset
    i can draw it in Autocad for you but cant picture what you want if you could pencil sketch it and scan it in etc that might help

    ATB

    Duncan
     
  9. TREV RYN

    TREV RYN https://www.neftaonline.org/

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,340
    Location:
    skelmanthorpe ,west yorkshire,emley moor ftc
    to true the one you are describing if im not mistaken is the leup 27 ret that i have in my scope;)
     
  10. chrispro97

    chrispro97 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,062
    Location:
    atherstone
    Club:
    purley chase ftc
    matt it woz the same ret as my leup comp wot you seen at tawd no 27
     
  11. Anon

    Anon Non member

    I thought ret 27, had this fitted to my Leup MkIV 35 mag, would only bracket a 55 yard kill and not other ranges?

    Hhhhmmm may have to rethink the ret then, just so I don't get into any trouble with Premier.

    Wonder if the main cross was a mil-dot ret but if another line was added below this main cross with all the ranging dots on wether this would be ok? Don't want it to become too cluttered.

    Any ideas from anyone else?

    regards,

    Matt
     
  12. HotShot

    HotShot Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    Barnsley, Yorkshire
    Club:
    Redfearns FTC
    I really like the Nato ret. If I was designing a ret it would have lines rather than dots. The same line thickness as the Nato as I have never lost it on a dark target but it isn't too thick.

    They give more precise aimpoints + have less chance of losing a pellet strike behind one and I would think make bracketing easier.

    Dave.
     
  13. Mr P

    Mr P Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,028
    Location:
    Sunny Ilkeston
    Club:
    Castle
    Hi Matt
    Hi do beleive i have my original dimensions in MOA off of my prem ret leup 20-50 so if you look through the scope and compare it to the dimensions this may poss help Mr P
     
  14. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,104
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Reckon it's just got to be a case of making it not look like a 27, a ruler is a ruler, so as long as it's not a direct copy, i can't see the problem... unless they have a world patent out on that particular aspect of measuring 45,50 and 55yds.
     
  15. FGYT

    FGYT New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Dorset
    and a one of copy of anything for personnel use is allowed even on patents ;)
     
  16. Ste Hughes

    Ste Hughes Daystate's whipping boy

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    424
    Location:
    southport
    Club:
    Tawd Vale FT & ARC
    as long as you are not making them to sell i can't see what premier could do

    as above, if its for personal use its absolutely fine

    once you start making them to sell then you have crossed the line and will be in trouble
     
  17. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,620
    Location:
    Rotherham
    The only problem is getting a company to tool up & make you something for free which would be copyrighted in some fashion. I'm still not sure it would be free from possible legal action as it's clearly not for personal use by the person who made it.
     
  18. FGYT

    FGYT New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Dorset
    just use an old Dragon reticule they did lots of bracketing dots etc tho their lines did melt n sag if you pointed it at the sun :D Google Fu cant find Dragon any more so guess they have gone
     
  19. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,104
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Hmm, not sure if just paying someone for it may land you in trouble, but it might land whoever makes it in trouble, if they were caught ;). Debatable if they would go for the neck on one replication, even if it was 100% direct copy, but you never know... we have, but then a lot of my work is just once use only, so when it gets copied again, we tend to got to defcon 2 as default.

    The patents covering reticules seem a little different to ours, which, i think, have to cover a functional aspect. The leupold patents seem to only cover an ornamental aspect, ie it's just a look... if it looks like that it's a copy... if it does the same thing, but looks different, it aint.

    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/D506520.pdf

    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/D532477.pdf

    the latter pdf's and the sentence "we claim the ornamental design as shown" and the lack of description of the function of the reticule might suggest it's more of a visual design that's protected as opposed to a functional design with specific parameters.

    however, if you look at Premier's patent for the Gen 2 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6729062.pdf you can see it's functional descriptive. That patent probably means that any new reticule using aiming points is a derivative of the Gen2, which Leupold fluffed up. That's probably why when Nikon got a new reticule patented, it was news, even though it didn't light the shooting world on fire (i actually quite like it, but there you go).

    All that aside, Gen 2 mil-dotâ„¢ is protected by U.S. Patent #6,729,062.

    US as opposed worldwide. It would appear they deem the US market to be large enough to cover the likelyhood of a scope being sold there and thus requiring a license from them to do so.

    In the uk, i (being completely unqualified) would say the Premier patent could/may hold if it was registered and got around (somehow) the prior art of mildot, where as the leupold ones wouldn't and would probably fall under copyright, which is far easier to defeat, you simply add 'work' to the image, and then it's yours (and you can copyright it).

    You can see from the dates, Premier got their Gen2 patented in 04, Leup got theirs done 05... perhaps Premier couldn't be bothered to chase them over the TMR... perhaps there's a weakness in the Gen2 patent... dunno.
     
  20. FGYT

    FGYT New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    Dorset
    you only need vary a couple of dimensions and its a differnt reticule etc unless they intend to sue all the Mildot rets prior to 04 etc as well which they cant

    ie the abstract states teh secondary lines are less than 0.2mil a 0.3mil line would break the patent

    pattents to be of any use have to be fairly specific and you also have to bother to enforce them and a company will only do that if its finacially worth it

    as you say the leup one is a very simple patent claim and is the look of the ret so you can use any marks that doen give the over all look of the ret and should probably be a registered design

    if a etched glass ret 2 converging lines that woulds pass the points would mean you could just raise the ret till the kill touched the lines and fire

    ATB

    Duncan
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice