My Cross Guns Problem!!!

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by Dunk, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. Dunk

    Dunk New Member

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    Had a mega shoot at Cross Guns! it was great...But!!!

    After taking the Kneeling shots, Suddenly had some big chap shouting out real loud that i had just taken them both incorrect!
    I was gutted...
    I have been shooting field target for mant years, but have not been around for the past six, and have never been told i was doing the shots wrong!

    It was a good job he told me, but he had not needed to make such a fuss, and really put me down.

    I was real sorry, but i just did not know!

    anyone got the exact rules that go along with the kneeling shots.....?

    ta!
     
  2. Baltipal

    Baltipal New Member

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    Sorry you had a bad experience there Dunk but I think you fell foul of a certain sensitivity to Kneeling shots that has developed of late!
    Roger Moy has had occasion to mention them in detail in his pre-match briefs & I have detected a small element of heat in the way he talks about them. As I understand it you,

    ........Must make contact with 3 points, both feet & knee only, so no sitting on a collapsed leg. The cushion/bumbag can be utilised to support the arch at the base of your trailing leg, under the shin.
    The supporting wrist cannot be rested on the forward knee & has to be forward of it.

    I think that's it in a nutshell. The situation had got so agravated that Roger even mentioned the possibility of banning the Kneeling Shoot if people kept on abusing it. That was either at the Safety brief at GP9 Sywell or the European Championships, I can't remember which now!

    Don't feel too bad though mate, if you've been out the game for a while you weren't to know. Don't let it put you off Dowry Hill next year mate.
     
  3. Baltipal

    Baltipal New Member

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    Kneeling Rule

    Here you go mate, the letter of the law itself as regards kneeling, according to the BFTA Core Rules anyway;

    "b. Kneeling: There shall be only 3 points of contact with the ground (2 feet and 1 knee). The rear foot shall be upright and straight in line with the knee. A legal seat may be used to support the rear foot and/or ankle, or to keep the knee clean provided that the foot has contact with the ground. The leading hand will support the gun and, forward of the wrist should itself be unsupported."

    Hope that clears it up for you mucker.
     
  4. Jon

    Jon Member

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    Lifted from the BFTA Documents.

    Kneeling: There shall be only 3 points of contact with the ground (2 feet and 1 knee). The rear foot shall be upright and straight in line with the knee. A legal seat may be used to support the rear foot and/or ankle, or to keep the knee clean provided that the foot has contact with the ground. The leading hand will support the gun and, forward of the wrist should itself be unsupported.

    That means toes bent up, ok until you get up.
     
  5. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    There's been a bit of up and down with them, so there's no wonder a bit of confusion surrounds... but there's no need to grab the loudhailer as far as i'm concerned :D

    There's 2 areas that normally cause concern...

    1) The leading hand, ie the left if your right handed, has to be unsupported from the wrist forwards. The hand does not need to be forward of the knee anymore. (i think it was deemed inpractical for elevated shots...

    2) The rear foot, ie the right if your right handed, has to be vertical. It can be folded vertically, but not twisted at the ankle. This means that if you look straight on at the sole of the foot, the line from the heel bone to the toes must be vertical to the ground (even though it might be bent if you look at the side of the foot). This prevents very flexible people from laying their foot sideways on the ground and putting their backside on it. The foot is only allowed to be supported under the ankle, or the knee is allowed to be protected from the ground. But you must maintain 3 points of contact with the ground, ie the knee cannot float.

    I keep meaning to do some shots of this... might get around to it over the break.

    I'm in two minds about the leading hand. For me, my technique exploits the rules, which i'm not keen on...if I concentrate on it, then it's as stable as sitting, however sloped shooting points do muck it up, as does my lack of concentration.

    I'd like to see the elbow as being the only point of contact... but it's only a game :)
     
  6. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    oh well, scrap that, looks like hand does need to be in front of knee...

    (noted for next GM)
     
  7. Dunk

    Dunk New Member

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    Jasus!!!!

    Thanks for all the info, and not letting rip at me!!!

    This seems real confusing, and no wonder there are other people doing it wrong along with me!

    I have watched some top AA shooter take kneeling shots, and this is where i copied my style from.

    looks like its down the field for me, to try and sort out a new style.


    ta all!

    Dunk
     
  8. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    what were you picked up on?
     
  9. Dunk

    Dunk New Member

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    !!!

    I was picked up on everything....!

    Sat on my foot! and hand on knee! everything i was not supposed to be doing by the sound of it!

    i was a bit shocked on how upset and tense the chap got! i could not apologize enough,
    and i honestly did not know i was doing any wrong. i am glad there was another chap with him who is real nice and chilled him out a bit!

    oh well!
     
  10. KarlC

    KarlC Member

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    Kneeling Shots

    Hi , Dunk,
    I have come back to field target after 11 years and have not encountered any problems yet , but I still see the same problems as when I stopped 11 years ago,, barracking on the firing line, and the usual vultures who hang around if they know somebody is shooting well. But all I have to say to you is that If you have been shooting this way for a long time , and nobody has picked up on your position, then maybe the person who picked you up on this , needs to remember that making such a song and dance will only drive away the back bone of all the field target clubs and eventually there wont be many left...which is a shame to all of us.. I hope this has not put you off and hope you come to Dowry..:shot:
     
  11. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    hopefully it hasn't dulled your enthusiasm!... i've never seen anyone inexperienced get that treatment and I dont hink it's deserved for even standing on your head. The only time a raised voice is needed is for safety.

    best thing to do, nail a mega kneeling position and get a lane ahead of the person next time, nail both, then mutter something about how much easier they are when done to the rules and how you wished you'd known earlier. Then quietly observe said person try and take them :D
     
  12. Dunk

    Dunk New Member

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    he! he!

    he! he!

    I like it.

    thanks all.

    dunk.
     
  13. Neil

    Neil MFTA Winter League Champion 2011 and winner of som

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    Dunk, you are quite simply a liar!
    I am the afore mentioned "big chap" who was shouting out real loud about your kneeling shots.
    What total crap. I stood quietly while you took both shots, I didn't butt in or break your concentration in any way. When you had taken the second shot I asked, in a moderate tone and reasonable manner if you were aware that your kneeling position was illegal.
    You replied to me that you were not and asked what you were doing wrong.
    This must be the part where I made a fuss and put you down, the part where I explained the correct technique of kneelers, so that you could conpete in the future without fear of infringing the rules.
    At no time during any of this was I either upset or tense, I love my shooting, so I'm at my most contented when I'm doing it, unlike now, when I am most definately upset and tense.

    Neil
     
  14. Bill Peat

    Bill Peat TALLENTLESS PUMPERTEER

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    kneeling

    i hope there is not an outcry over this incident,the person who informed "Dunk" of his errors then proceded to coach him the correct way.job done nicely in my book. i do not think this person went out to shame Dunk but to enlighten the man that rules are laid down for all to observe and adhere to.Back to the shoot, a nice little course which no one cleared due good variation of distances and angles and mother nature.
    well done to the cross guns posse. nice bacon& egg buttey too.:shot:

    MFTA WINTER LEAGUE CAN'T THINK OF BETTER WAY TO SPEND A SUNDAY
     
  15. Dunk

    Dunk New Member

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    I do hope you are right, and i took it the wrong way, but i was shocked and could not understand that i had done anything wrong!

    I suppose the sport is very serious to some people, and not just a bit of fun, so the rules must be kept in line.

    I am real sorry if i did take this the wrong way.

    Dunk.

    oh, and i got the kneeling position spot on now thanks to a bit of coaching from someone in the know!
     
  16. Dunk

    Dunk New Member

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    Neil....I am not a liar

    You are a big chap and your voice was loud to me, telling me they should be marked a miss, but you did not stop me before the shots were taken i was real upset and felt intimidated...! and before this incident you put your hand up, and did not crack a smile at me. you were obviously very serious! i do not know you and i thought your approach compared to the other chap was quite scaring. . if i have took this the wrong way i am real sorry, and i apologize.
    Dunk
     
  17. Jon

    Jon Member

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    Dunc put it down to experience and dont let this put you off.
    Many people do not get informed of the dispute there and then rightly or wrongly. In fact one top shooter has just packed it in for that reason.
    Nothing to worry about, apart from the lesson i am sure Neil was having some fun [​IMG] Hope you see in a different light.
     
  18. Baltipal

    Baltipal New Member

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    Righto! The old year is ending & the new one is just about set to begin. I never witnessed this incident but I'm sure it's not worth carrying over into '09!
    New Year, clean slate & the benefit of the doubt all round, what do you say?:)
     
  19. TeamZ

    TeamZ Member

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    enough said I think. People starting out do make mistakes and it doesnt really matter as long as they learn from it as they quite clearly have. If the big chap is Neil D then I can assure you you couldnt wish to meet a nicer and more helpful person, he is a pleasure to know - and I am 100% he would have not had any bad intent.

    Lets just crack on at Dowry Hill and put our energies into getting the Inter Regional Dream Team on top form!!

    Cheers all

    Chris
     
  20. Sphinx

    Sphinx Member

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    Well said Chris. Totally agree.
     

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