Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by Mr H., Nov 26, 2018.
The guns of the day were not regulated ?
Or the mds had a superior design ?
I have not pulled one to bits, but the MDS design was well ahead of the game and in a modified and updated form is still used by Shaun in current ISP's.
There was a race - so to speak to see who could regulate a pre-charged Pneumatic 1st.
Barry McCraw or Mick Dawes. Barry with his heavily modified Daystate and Mick with his own version of a pre-charged pneumatic.
ALL Pneumatics owe an acknowledgement to the design developed originally by the early Daystate company who used them for tranquiliser airguns.
From what I remember Barry made a reg 1st but it had issues 3 weeks before Mick had perfected his reg. Both totally different designs.
Mick's reg was easier to work on from what the lads used to say. Anyway, everybody who tried Micks guns was impressed. I used to get 95 regulated shots from mine running on 2000psi and 11 fps variation over the 95 shots, (don't forget accurate cheap pellets scales weren't readily available - unlike today and pellet quality was starting to get better), while some pneumatics you could only get 30 shots mid power band of the charge with a knock open valve, no regulator.
If you can get the Airgun World magazines where Terry Doe and Nigel Allen both do Articles on Mick's guns it makes good reading.
The only problem with Mick's was that the reg was non-vented and if it slipped a seal in the reg it would pressurise and jam up. Mine did and was in a drum of tricoethelyne for 2 weeks to rot the seals. No 18 when I picked it up earlier this year, the reg was pressurised. You have to remember this was the early days of Pneumatics - Terry Doe was still using "Emily" his beloved HW77 springer, soon to appear with a "Greasy Tube" - GC2. The Shamal was knock open valve. Shaun and Ivan Hill at ISP were also working on their own Pneumatic Air-rifle. Shaun's approach was a different approach and of course when the 2 of them got together well that's when things improved.
Shaun's reg's were vented. The reg is a bit of a jewel really, and hasn't changed much over the years. I personally know that Shauns regs have been copied - I wonder how long before someone say's "I developed that".
It's already happened to Shaun, the side lever - now commonplace fitting to Pneumatics was developed by Shaun for a Disabled, bell target shooter, again back in the late 80's. A truly brilliant concept and design.
So - anyway, there is a photo somewhere on the MDS No18 article which shows the early MDS reg which came out of No18 and "is still" pressurised and I have it here with me not 10 inches from the laptop.
I can and will put some more photo's up of No14 as and when bits get done.
The very first Air Arms regs were air sprung and I am told that when they pressurised it was a seriously scary job to deal with them.
Andy Taylor had an MDS - won quite a bit with it but was then lured to Air-arms. The early AirArms regs could really catch you out if you tried to work on them or attempt to set them up.
I'm fairly sure he used to say "balancing the reg pressure" was an absolute nightmare.
Photo I have just taken of the pressurised reg from MDS No18
A photo of the Black Country Marksmen team Andy Taylor is wearing the MDS cap in the back row. He eventually shot with one of John Allcocks - JA Specials as the MDS threw a seal.
Black Country Marksmen team photo Left to Right. Not sure =?
Les Burrows? Tony Wilkes. Andy Taylor, Des Edwards. Tony Cook.
Ian Jerram. Alan Jones. Joe Myszka. John Allcock.
Tony Wilkes - another one of the good guys no longer with us - sadly missed.
If a barrels is good , then felts are OK . a lot of shooters use em on there own . makes a wicked noise but does nothing . they have to have a pellet behind em to drive em into the grooves . with Four By Two . cut the four by two into two by two . fold em as tight as you can get em length ways . then pull through . with the fluid on em . they should squeak or vibrate as they go down the barrel . i loop the other end over the banisters , so i get a straight pull back . luck HOLLY
Oh crap, banisters! How much pressure does it need to pull through? Ah - hence the Conger trace. Well that should most definitely work. Can’t wait to try it out now - got me intrigued. Cheers
not a bare wire trace though
I like Shaun's work on the Airstream (had a Mk I) and the Spartan (had one too) and have a lot of respect for him, but this works both ways...
Have a look at this pump up airrifle made by Ken Turner in 1982 and described in Airgun World article from the 1980’s:
Dropbox - ken_turner.pdf
Here are some pictures:
Dropbox - IMG_20170412_215307.jpg
Dropbox - IMG_20170412_215315.jpg
Dropbox - IMG_20170412_215322.jpg
Dropbox - IMG_20170412_215346.jpg
Dropbox - IMG_20170412_215413.jpg
Notice the side lever? This was 1981/82...
Wow, I haven’t seen that rifle before and I had all the Airgun mags from start, inc sporting air rifle. Will have to try and dig my copies out. Amazing. I stand corrected. Mark.
Looking at the photo of Ken I have just managed to open I do recognise the article but never realised the significance of the rifle.
Hi, I never said i invented the side lever, as its fitted to various types of rifle, what i say is, i was the first to my knowledge to fit a side lever to a PCP. the lever idea came about to make it easy to cock my 6ftbs bell target rifle, as it was proving difficult to cock the action with a diopter sight sticking out at the rear of the block, hence the lever was born, upon taking it to rough wedge shoot one day, loads seen it and asked me if it was possible to make a 12ftbs version, and that's how the the side lever airstream came about.