marking up a top turret on springer

Discussion in 'Piston & Spring' started by Evo, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. Evo

    Evo SCOUSER and top wheel nicker

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    wirral uk
    Club:
    ByleyFTC, the Dib,Blackbrook
    so basically what your saying James is as long as i can hit a 25mm target at the different ranges it will be fine ????,

    thats the bit that is confusing me because if you think about it, with a pcp i want the pellet landing on the horizontal line, reason for this is it gives me a larger room for error with wind judgement, but this will not be the case with a springer, because Example, if im going in the kill at 40yrds say and in at the bottom of the kil then surely my room for error is a lot less ???

    how do the top springer guys do their settings, is it done by firing 10 shots and taking an average, i doubt it,,, i know springers dont like bipods so do they rest their guns on something, do they check their markings prone and rested, do they do it sitting,, how is it done???

    i think i,m gonna have to take a trip up to doncaster and sort this with the master himself, as an example if i take 10 shots at 40 yrds they are all over the 40mm target, yes i,m hitting it but how do i know what is the correct marking because some have gone in at the top some at the bottom basically all over so what is right and what is wrong, it is totally confusing and i,m probably not the only person thinking this, ok , i,m new to springer shooting and i,m beginning to think this is the reason not as many people shoot springers, because its a ball ache setting your markings up, have to say though i am enjoying the challenge but it is back breaking, there surely must be a certain way it is done other than what has been said so far which to me just sounds like guess work
     
    Panas78 likes this.
  2. SteveC200

    SteveC200 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    575
    Location:
    Colchester
    Club:
    Iceni Marksmen
    I reasonably new to springers myself (well, a return to them after years of PCPs) but I dont really understand why you are having problems. My TX groups near enough as well as any of my PCPs, so shoot it, see where the group is, set the scope to suit, job done.

    What sort of grouping are you getting at 45/50/55 yards Bob?
     
  3. mrgeoff

    mrgeoff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2018
    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Norwich / Peterborough
    Club:
    Broadlands / SOKE
    A while ago I had thought about dropping my scope onto a PCP to set up the dial marks, maybe an easy way to get close. You would need to run the same velocity on the PCP (which can be adjusted on most), and the same height scope to barrel, maybe even the same distance scope to barrel end lengthways too.

    I think you would need to "re-zero" both LR and up/down due to the springer kick, but the arc plotted should be identical.

    However, this will not solve your need to take an average group centre at some point on the springer. Zeroing a springer IS guesswork pending your and the rifles ability.

    Geoff.
     
  4. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,132
    Location:
    Leeds
    Club:
    Redfearns & the UBC
    No you can’t zero or get your ranges for a springer off a bag or rest, or prone...unless that’s how you’re going to be shooting in comps. For FT springer that means zeroing seated with your usual shooting clothing, footwear, butt hook setting (if you use one), everything.

    Yes that means finding a group centre. The thing is unless you’re an absolute shooting machine, it’s not averaging ten shots, it’s finding the representative centre of the group. If you’ve put half a dozen pellets overlapping then the next four out of the group because you were getting tired and not giving each shot 100%, then ignore them. It’s not cherry picking, you’re not trying to get a great group for bragging rights, it’s about finding the point the rifle will put the pellets if you do it right. You’ll get a sense for how a good shot feels.

    Also ten shots is too many to establish this. You go off the boil, the seal warms up, and if you’re not careful you’ll find yourself chasing the zero all over. Five maximum then let the gun and you rest a bit.

    Ideally shoot 2 shots in comp conditions and then wait a couple of minutes.
     
  5. ellis d

    ellis d Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    973
    Location:
    Leicester
    Club:
    Castle ftc
    Is your tx200 a standard mk3 or has it been sorted? If your running a standard mk3 internals good luck to you the gun is shootable but not great? Mk1 or mk2 better.
     
  6. Evo

    Evo SCOUSER and top wheel nicker

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    wirral uk
    Club:
    ByleyFTC, the Dib,Blackbrook
    cheers for the replies,,

    the rifle is a mk3 but not standard, i have fitted a 22mm conversion and this has made a massive difference to the amount of recoil i was originally getting and its certainly a lot easier to shoot,,

    i,ve not really fully pellet tested with it yet but i,m using 8.4gr pellets and to 40 yrds they seem quite good, when i say good i mean i can drop a 40mm kill target 9/10 times sometimes 10 times, now i know this springer lark is a new thing and yes its all about repeating how i hold the rifle time after time, well if im honest im not even holding it because i have found my groups are better when its just resting on me and i squeeze the trigger, thats how i seem to get the best groups,,
    At 38 yrds i can now repeatedly put 3 pellets in a 10mm bull now that i am proud of BUT past 40yrds i cannot do it at all, at 50yrds im grouping around 50mm and 55yrds is bloody worse, they are up,down and everywhere no matter how hard i try but i think its defo down to my setting on the top turret or could even be pellet choice ???? i dont know,,,, all i do know is its a challenging journey and at times i feel like bashing my head against a tree,

    can i somehow make a chart to give me a guide as to where abouts they should be ??? i,ve actually put my big nikko on top and this still has the settings off my ftp900, the rail and mounts were the same size and height but the close ones seem fine its just from the 45 to 55yrds im struggling with
     
  7. ellis d

    ellis d Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    973
    Location:
    Leicester
    Club:
    Castle ftc
    ok the gun is sorted, you haven’t got the right pellet for the gun, I don’t like shooting 7.9s I prefer 8.4s I’ve got 4 different batches of pellet 2 shoot well in the tx and 2 perform the same as what you have found.. not great 45-55, mega die 34 8.4s are good, but I ain’t wasting them in a twanger ev2 only, the others air arms express 7.9 on a good day they can group as well as the ev2 at 55 yards.... I would forget about setting your gun up until you find a pellet that groups well at 55 yards.... 7.9 or 8.4 or you will drive yourself crackers, and when you do find the right pellet and you sort all your dialing out, you will turn up to a shoot and the temp will be 5 degrees colder or hotter than when you set the gun up and you will have to adjust your turret 5 or 6 clicks either way to compensate or not... lol, a good springer if you do your bit will surprise you how good it can be!!! but you will have to stay on top of how it’s set up ... temp mostly... good luck.
     
    Welsh Wizard likes this.
  8. Evo

    Evo SCOUSER and top wheel nicker

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    wirral uk
    Club:
    ByleyFTC, the Dib,Blackbrook
    i,ve got a load of die 34,s i,ll give them a try, also got loads of others, think as you say i need to find a pellet thats grouping at 55yrds, i think thats were the problem lies at the moment, i,ll be out everyday this week testing pellets, its a cracking rifle to shoot and now i,ve adjusted everything to suit me its actually a pleasure to shoot,pic before butthook was fitted
    20181126_105649.jpg
     
    SteveC200 and ellis d like this.
  9. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,132
    Location:
    Leeds
    Club:
    Redfearns & the UBC
    Have you got the rail the right way round? I have two AJP rails on springers: an LGU and a 97K. Both are the other way round, bolt heads to right.
     
    Brian.Samson likes this.
  10. Evo

    Evo SCOUSER and top wheel nicker

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    wirral uk
    Club:
    ByleyFTC, the Dib,Blackbrook
    yes mate, its been changed as when i first set the scope up it was miles out, its on the correct way now lol
    this is the rifle finished and how i,m shooting it now, ive also had to put longer hamster posts in
    20190107_022307.jpg
     
  11. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    3,354
    Location:
    Ardboe, Co.Tyrone.
    Club:
    Back Hill Ballistics; DFTC; Nelson FTC
    The way it’s shooting I think he’s got the scope the wrong way round!
     
    Adam and Evo like this.
  12. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,978
    Location:
    New Forest, Hampshire
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    What was it like before the tune?
     
  13. Evo

    Evo SCOUSER and top wheel nicker

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    wirral uk
    Club:
    ByleyFTC, the Dib,Blackbrook
    10 x worse Rob, lol,

    i actually didnt put the scope on rob when it was in standard trim,

    i,m gonna do some pellet testing this week mate then see where we go from there, i think the problem at the moment is the pellets arn,t the best for the rifle and being a boinger and me a useless boinger shooter the rifle is exaggerating just how bad the pellets are due to the recoil

    mind you the recoil is nothing compared to how it was originally,

    Conor, you have never spoken a truer sentence ,,, :D:D:D well thats what the gun feels like at the moment :):)
     
  14. Cooper_dan

    Cooper_dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Swadlincote
    Recoil is not an indication of how well the rifle will shoot. Don't fall into the trap of chasing lowest recoil in an attempt to tighten groups.

    Some of the best groups I ever shot with my TX were in completly standard factory trim.
     
    Evo, Brian.Samson and RobF like this.
  15. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,978
    Location:
    New Forest, Hampshire
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    As with Dan, recoil won't make a difference to grouping... just shoot it in the FT position. Even pellets won't make that much difference, they still should form a basic group. Have you run it over a chrono?
     
  16. Evo

    Evo SCOUSER and top wheel nicker

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    wirral uk
    Club:
    ByleyFTC, the Dib,Blackbrook
    yes Rob its actually very consistent, its running between 750-754, shocked me just how good it was over the chrono
     
  17. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,309
    Location:
    Doncaster
    Club:
    Doncaster Airgun Range
    Sorry Bob, but the first answer to this thread was the right answer I reckon.

    Spend more time with it - When the pellet goes exactly where you want it to and it all felt like a good shot - stop and have a think about what you did - where your hold was, think about your hand position, head position, trigger technique - everything.

    Same when you get a shot that doesn't go where you want it to - what did you do different to a good shot.

    Spend about 3 months doing this - and you'll be able to tell the difference between a good shot and a bad shot and you'll also naturally improve your technique in the process.

    You mentioned that you increased the height of your hamster posts - are you resting your hamster on your leg/knee? I can't get a good consistent group when I shoot my springer like that - others report that they can, but I can't, not consistently anyway. So experiment with that too. My hamster is supported by my hand and my hand rests on my kneepad, I never directly rest my hamster on my kneepad even though it's quite padded.

    This is all stuff you'll figure out after spending a few months with your gun learning it.

    This process only starts when you stop thinking like a PCP shooter though - PCP shooters initially blame their kit and try to fix it, Springer shooters accept that it's the nut behind the butt that needs fixing, not the gun/pellets.

    That's what makes springer shooting both frustrating and fun at the same time.
     
    pbrown, Alanok2002, Dan Smith and 4 others like this.
  18. MickyFinn

    MickyFinn I❤HFT

    Joined:
    May 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,879
    Location:
    Matlock, Derbyshire
    Club:
    The Anston Massive & Kingsley HFT
    Better pellets needed I reckon Bob, as Dan & Rob et all have suggested the recoil has little to no effect if always shooting the same shot/position. It's when you're on a course that a "calmer" and more predictable shot cycle comes into it's own dealing with different angled shots etc. The 22mm I'm using loves 7.9 but also loves "some" 8.4 also. It will shot gun certain batches of exacts, but mine (well actually Tony Leaches gun) is a hw77 converted to run his 22mm tx set up!
     
    Evo and Cooper_dan like this.
  19. Cooper_dan

    Cooper_dan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    Swadlincote
    Can't say it any better than Brian has.
    I've been shooting my TX in HFT for about 18 months now. Well over 70 competitions, plus practice inbetween. I reckon I'm probably about 1/4 of the way towards understanding it.

    It's a long road! But much more interesting than the puffy alternative :p
     
    pbrown, garym, Brian.Samson and 2 others like this.
  20. Evo

    Evo SCOUSER and top wheel nicker

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    wirral uk
    Club:
    ByleyFTC, the Dib,Blackbrook
    cheers for the replies lads

    well it looks like i,m gonna have to put plenty of hours in with this springer lark, got to say i,m actually loving the challenge, yes its frustrating and at times i,m baffled but it really is fun knowing just how easy me and my pcp buddies have got it,

    thanks for the reply Brian, much appreciated and taken on board , i,ll certainly work on it, i recon by 2029 i should be able to hit a target lol, how you hit them targets with a springer mate is aweinspiring , you springer lads have my upmost respect thats for sure, they really are a tool and piece of kit you have to master,

    in 1 week ive gone from hitting a piece of A4 paper at 35yrds,," just " to now consistently hitting a 10mm bull, one thing i have noticed is you have to feel comfy shooting these monsters otherwise it will punish you which if i,m honest sometimes you can get away with it with a PCP but defo not a springer,
    i,ve got plenty of pellets to try and test and whilst doing so i,ll try different positions with the rifle, at the moment i am resting it on my knee like i do the PCP but will certainly try the "rest on hand " jobbie,

    thanks for all the advice everyone and i,m sure i will improve with time but i,m in no rush but will give it my best shot,,pardon the punt lol

    cheers Bob
     
    Brian.Samson, garym and MickyFinn like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice