Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by Amac, Mar 11, 2018.
They may not be suitable for longer ranges or faster pellet speeds, just 10 meter indoor.
Tried both Tony and neither was impressive. The 8.4's drop alarmingly past 48-50 yards compared to standard exacts so ranging becomes a little more critical and I didn't see any improvement in group size. I've tried a few batches (there don't appear to be very many though) in the hope that they may make some tangible difference, they didn't . I'd probably been better off investing the additional cost of the premiums in beer and fags.
Nice box but not worth the extra money in any of my rifles, even if they were the same price I'd still shoot the standard ones as they generally fly flatter and group the same at 55.
Interesting. I’m thinking of the “legendary” die #2 Crosman Premier from the 90s and trying to remember why we speculated they were so mega.
Their main characteristics were: 7.9g, quite a hard lead alloy. Short, thin skirts, with a distinct “flat” inside the skirt at the head end, pronounced dome shape to the heads. Some of this suggests the centre of mass was quite far forward. They also produce a bit less power at the muzzle than some pellets.
Don’t know how much of all that was significant. Could have been coincidental and they were just better made and more consistent than the Superdomes and H&N Silhouette we were using.
Think about it.. flat head pellets are specifically designed for that.
I tried a couple of batches of the Select 7.9s, I couldn’t get them to group at 30yds, my gun hated them.
You sure it was the gun Mr Calpin?
Yes you cheeky feck, the EV2 next to me didn’t like them either.
That's a no then
Mark was on the EV2, worst pellets I’ve ever seen, if I’d paid full price for them they’d have gone back. Only gun they liked was a Steyr.
Well, it seems like my initial thoughts regarding flight characteristics may have been right. I can remember my son James being sent some Selects to try by JSB before they became available. He reckons he tried about 20 and then didn't bother as the batch of Exacts he was using at the time was far superior, particularly at range as the Selects dropped an additional 20mm @ 40 yards. He reckoned that they must have a lower BC due to the additional drop. As I never listen to a word he says I just had to try them outside myself in competition. Clearly a mistake, although dont tell him I told you that!
It would certainly be very interesting to see some proper testing via long range chrono to see if the Selects do indeed lose velocity quicker. I will be re-zeroing my 9015 tomorrow to its preferred diet of AA Field. Should have stuck with what I know performs well in the gun really. Still, the Select is genuinely impressive indoors but of absolutely no use to us outside. The bench rest shooters I know all use Express. I also have a couple of boxes of them in their "Select" format and I might let them try them in comparison.
It just goes to show how minimal differences in the manufacturing of an individual die can have such a massive impact for us all.
They (8.4s) really grouped well through the LW on my Steyr. Just dropped like a brick. For BR I'd have no issue shooting them.
I have a box of selects and only 10 pellets are gone. They don't go with my 3 scoped TX's. Only 3 shots with each gun and I knew it was hopeless.
8.4s, 3 different batches, grouped really well in mine. Used them all for BR.
So it was the premium express that shotgunned?
Yes Rob, in the 3 guns we had, it would do one down the middle and then either throw them high right or low left, I've got a picture of a test card somewhere. We got offered a big batch of them and thought they'd be ideal for BR because it was a great price but we only found one of our guns liked them. I gave up after trying 30 from each batch, I can score 9s on my own thank you very much.
I use the select 8.4s for BR and I'm averaging 198-199 shooting off just a sandbag but if we go up this season I think that is going to change because the average score in the league is 200+. My biggest problem is slipping into bad trigger habits and doing a great card only to blow on the last one.
I tried to estimate the true BC of some pellets from my LG110 today. They were: Air Arms 4.52, die 43; JSB Premium, die 42 and; JSB Exact 4.52, die 44.
I set up indoors with a Combro on the gun and a Caldwell 35 yards downrange. The Combro had been calibrated to agree with the Caldwell. I fired 10 shots of each pellet and calculated the BC using Chairgun.
Air Arms: Ave MV 770 fps (±4) Ave at 35 yds 651 fps (±4) BC=0.026
JSB Premium: Ave MV 776 fps (±1) Ave at 35 yds 613 fps (±13) BC=0.019
JSB Exact: Ave MV 785 fps (±2) Ave at 35 yds 609 fps (±3) BC=0.017
This fits well with my real-world holdovers and some earlier tests using pellet drop rather than velocity. From my gun, Air Arms pellets are significantly slower out of the barrel but hold their downrange velocity much better than the JSB Exacts I have. The difference at 55 yards is around half a mildot. Personally I can’t tell the difference between the Exacts and the Premiums in terms of holdover, but I get much better grouping at any distance beyond about 35 yards with the ordinary Exacts. I get my best grouping at any range I have tried with Air Arms pellets.
Interesting stuff Alan and thanks for sharing that with us. Personally, and despite all of the shooters who reckon they are exactly the same as the normal Exact, I have also preferred using AA Field and seem to be able to get better groups with them. At the Leigh indoor range today, I intended to re-zero with Field following my failed experiment with Selects. Strangely, I didn't have to click the scope at all as the set zero was exactly the same. I was able to put some pretty decent groups together out to 54 yards and the gun just carried on shooting like I had never changed the ammunition at all. Clearly, through my barrel, the Selects and Fields have no difference regarding drop at range. How the movement of air outside affects them is a different matter though as I discovered on Sunday.
Alans findings with those particular batches of pellets seem to confirm that for whatever reason, there is a significant difference in performance with three pellets weighing the same and all originating at the JSB factory.
That’s a horrifically bad batch of Exacts you have there.
I've been careful not to draw any general conclusions, but I'm pretty sure it's right for this batch because of the holdovers. It's another reason I tend to stick to AA - they aren't perfect, but I find them far less variable tin-to-tin and batch-to-batch.
Yes, apart from the thinner skirts, softer metal and very different BC they're exactly the same
If that is the case Alan, maybe AA Field shooters have been at an advantage over Exact shooters for years. The problem is of course the fact that they can all vary from batch to batch with widely different effects upon the B.C.