Is it that big a deal?

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by shaun eustace, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. shaun eustace

    shaun eustace Member

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    In the time since I have been back to shooting HFT (6 months), the most talked about topic has been a dink vs a donut and people calling dink when donut was clearly evident.

    So why not switch to FT scoring? X and O!
    That’ll eliminate any controversy immediately.. It wouldn’t take long for the new scoring system to become the norm!

    So “is it that big a deal if it was changed” ??
     
  2. Cooper_dan

    Cooper_dan Well-Known Member

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    Where do you shoot. I shoot every weekend and have only had, or heard, this conversation once in the last year.
    Doesnt seem to be an issue here in the midlands
     
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  3. shaun eustace

    shaun eustace Member

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    I’m in the Essex area but shoot all over tbh. Maybe it’s just us Southern lot
     
  4. Bensile

    Bensile Well-Known Member

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    Love a donut. Leave the it alone for me.

    Some people lost major comps by 1 point by getting one.
     
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  5. Ash Bailey

    Ash Bailey Would-be HFT shooter.

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    Leave HFT as it is - or talentless futhermockers like me would be walking off with a 12 most weeks - if I'm lucky!!
     
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  6. Cooper_dan

    Cooper_dan Well-Known Member

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    You would have loved my card yesterday. 4 of those bad boys :rolleyes:
     
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  7. Pete236

    Pete236 Little Member

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    Aye same here!!

    It also gives an element of tactics to the day.

    Do you risk it all and go for a kill - which might give you that vital extra point? Or play it safe and grab a solid 1, in the hope that others have gone all out and missed the kill?

    I doubt I would shoot HFT if it was all or nothing, and it's one of the reasons that FT doesn't appeal to me.
     
  8. pbrown

    pbrown Bunghole

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    Must be the South East. not heard it mentioned in the South West. :p
     
  9. chucky82

    chucky82 Member

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    I've not had any problems with this locally at club competitions (Midlands) .I have been in competitions all other the place and quite often see oh just the one for me when quite clearly heard a big thump of a tree or pellet is still travelling also seen quite often people Infront claiming points that clearly didn't get. This is something I've seen more than once and thankfully its never won them nowt.

    As they say who are they cheating because I go home with satisfaction that I wanna beat my own scores and inprove,what are those cheaters doing deep down its only themselves that they are cheating with false points . I know it's not right but it's hard to prove most times . ..... ( That's the rant over )

    Regarding changing scoring my view ..

    As for changing scoring system I think what hft is good is encouraging newbie's to the sport and they don't have to knock target's over to score points so can still go home scoring 30's rather than 6 points as you could in ft .
     
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  10. Ash Bailey

    Ash Bailey Would-be HFT shooter.

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    To be honest, I do sometimes wonder what that bloody string is for....?! o_O
     
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  11. MickyFinn

    MickyFinn I❤HFT

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    if it goes X O scoring the courses will get boring as course setters won't have to catch you out with donut inducing tricks? ;):rolleyes:o_O
     
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  12. Dan Smith

    Dan Smith Active Member

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    Ooh

    That opens up the whole - “why is there a penalty for calling a target in HFT when there’s no penalty in FT” issue.....
     
  13. frank

    frank Reactive Member

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    Hft-Ft, Different sport different rules, if you object to the Hft rules shoot Ft!
     
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  14. EV2UK

    EV2UK Active Member

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    I've never shot HFT but I can't see why using FT scoring would make much difference?
     
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  15. vangard

    vangard Member

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    Most doughnuts I ever got was 21 using a 1959 open sight BSA Meteor in .177 with 6.5 ft lb, but I recon it was only 20.
    Must say without the plates I would have scored zero, instead I had a great time so lets keep it as it is.
     
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  16. Bensile

    Bensile Well-Known Member

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    Shoot and you'll soon see why. Donuts are score destroyers. Even the best shots in the country get them and there's no recovery from that.
     
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  17. Evo

    Evo Scouser by Birth mfta shooter by choice

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    whats a donut ???? only ones ive ever had in hft was at the end with a brew :p
     
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  18. DEAN C.

    DEAN C. Steyr Convert

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    It was designed originally to encourage new and young shooters so don't you dare change it! Its not our fault southern softies want to cheat.
     
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  19. chrisc

    chrisc Lucky git

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    I think i should stay off a thread that's about doughnuts:p:D

    Liam (Bensile) was hinting at me specifically when he made his comment as i came 2nd at the last HFT worlds, missing out by a single point because of a doughnut. In HFT some targets can be placed so that the shooters has to shoot in a position high on the peg, not a problem as long as there's only a couple of shots like this on a course and not every other target:mad:....not really fair on smaller/lady/Junior shooters.

    For the FT lads, imagine putting your cushion down and sighting a target for you to only be able to see the top 10mm of the kill, either you stretch for the shot or take it kneeling. I can imagine the comments.;) Not good that a target can be shot if you're 6 ft plus tall but any stumpies struggle, not really a level playing field.

    Anyway back to the OP, I think you need the HFT scoring system as IMHO you'd have the chance of getting a large number of shooters on the same score leading to long shoot offs. The chance of a doughnut is (IMHO) pivitol in making HFT the sport it is, not just for the banter when you do get one but for those special 'bum twitching' shots on narrow targets when the wind is pushing.:)

    Quite a few years i had some target shapes laser cut and then bolted onto a 'knockover' faceplate. The shapes were designed so that there was always the possibility of a doughnut due to wind or misranging.....i think the pictures are on my laptop so i'll post later. I mentioned it to Pete D and might have even showed him a target , then that year the rules were brought in about min amounts of metal on targets, a couple of mine were sub 10mm around the edge of the kill. A pity really as i spent a lot of time/effort and money but they get used on our HFT extreme series.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  20. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused on this topic!

    It's not a new thing. I went to FT club days at places like Stoke and Millride back in the mid 90's and they would have scoring like 0, 5, 10. So you saw massive numbers on cards. The idea was to get newcomers big numbers on their cards to keep them coming back.

    So I totally understand why HFT started with a 0, 1, 2 score system.

    If I think a little more about this it gets a tad confusing ...

    In the early days the kills were large with just 25mm and 40mm kills. The plates were usually huge ( shoe box size ) with loads of room around the kills.

    So if someone new or young was having a go ... then shooting a PCP HFT prone style it was usually a sure thing that they would hit most plates, and hit some kills and thus get a decent sounding score on the card. You could miss the edge of kill by an inch or two or more and still get a dink.

    So the main reason for the '1' score is to get more people having a go and coming back for more ... Yes?

    So the sport then starts reducing kills because the HFT style prone and decent PCPs and scopes with rets that helped you range ... and some decent shooters giving HFT a go ... meant that a lot of people scored 59,60. So quite a few kills became 20mm and 15mm. So very few 40mm kills at this point. We then go a stage further where 25mm kills are allowed at 40 yards. Then reduced kills on positionals. Then most prone kills become 35mm. Very rare at a big shoot to see 40mm kills on a prone shot.

    So these newcomers and youngsters must be finding life a little tough by now regarding actually knocking targets down. Never mind ... they still have the dinks to get them a 1 ... and the plates are huge and the kills are pretty much in the middle of the plates with loads of plate around them ... aren't they?

    So then targets are introduced with kills with just 10mm of plate around them. These are lollipops or animal shapes with the kills in the heads with just 10mm around them. Some head shots like this have reduced kills.

    I understand that this means that even the best shots could get a doughnut ( 0 ) if they judge the wind ( and/or range ) slightly wrong.

    ... but the part of the game that was there to get more people shooting and keep them shooting has been reduced and reduced and reduced.

    So we now have people commenting that they will aim for the middle of the plate and take a '1' rather than trying to knock the target down and risk a '0'. That may be explained as tactical scoring by some but for me that just isn't right. The game is about knocking targets down and a dink is there to give low end shooters some points if they miss the kill ... but for goodness sake try and hit the kill.

    There have always been those that blatantly hit a tree and there's a dull 'thud' and they instantly shout " Plate ... that's a '1' ". I only saw it rarely in 12 years or so, so I don't think it's worth worrying about.

    Is it a 'Southern' thing? My eldest moved down south about 10 years ago. Now he wears vests and lube seems to be a part of his life and he's always on a march protesting about something.

    As always number of attendees ... and especially numbers of newcomers giving it a go, and still giving it a go a couple of years later, will tell if the balance is right between testing the top shooters and inviting new shooters in.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
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