International HFT - how would you change the rules?

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by Brian.Samson, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I only hunt these days, but I still take an interest in HFT and I also check on where links to my zeroing targets and HFT articles come from. Recently I've been getting more visitors from all over the World - especially Europe and South Africa. It seems like HFT is in the early stages of taking off in other countries which is brilliant news!

    Some of the countries I've looked into use UKAHFT rules with slight differences - i.e. distances are expressed in metres not yards and because they're rounded to the nearest metre, the maximum and minimum ranges are slightly different to our flavour of HFT. For instance, SA have targets from 7m to 40m ( just under 8 yards to just under 44 yards)

    They also have different laws regarding power - South Africa for example have a max power of 14fpe in their version of the UKAHFT rules.

    So the question is - If you were setting up an HFT association in another country with different power rules, how would you change the rules to accommodate the shooters in your country?

    From a self serving perspective you might say - stick to 12fpe as a maximum and use the UKA rules, because that means it becomes the World standard and eventually holding World Championships in other countries becomes less of a rules nightmare (like we have with FT).

    But.. is that fair and is it the best way to promote HFT in other countries? If you allow higher power rifles to be used (because most shooters in your country have guns over 12fpe) would you increase target distances, decrease killzone sizes etc to compensate for flatter trajectories and decreased windage?
     
  2. rich

    rich Active Member

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    For a start, I would limit the maximum power to 7.5 joules as that will permit Germany and other continental countries to take part easily. Anyway you don't need 12 ft.lb to knock over a reset target, not even half that, and there's still about 50% energy retention at 55 yards.

    Second, I'd cut the maximum range to 30 metres, that will free up lots of smaller plots of land to set out courses that at the moment they haven't got space for.

    Kill zones would all be reduced as well.

    So the combination of lower power and smaller kills will compensate for the shorter distances and mean that wind is still a factor to take into account.

    I'd probably set a minimum scope mag to be used, yes a minimum. With targets only out to 30 metres rangefinding becomes too easy, so a minimum scope mag it is.

    Also I'd have targets where the kill to hinge distance was variable (hint: my club is developing such an evil device.....;) ) - not just say two options but a variety of permutations.
     
  3. Mr P

    Mr P Active Member

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    Does that mean that the shooting /pulling of the trigger bit become a biproduct of guessing distance and have a cheat sheet for distances like we use in FT for every yard/metre ? Ps i suppose you could also use a 10 metre gun then with diopter that might make it really interesting
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  4. rich

    rich Active Member

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    Tightening up on kill size and looping the trajectory will mean the guessing has got to be pretty close, closer than it is now, anyway. No more of that anywhere-from-15-to-35 aim dead-on stuff. :)
     
  5. D Martin

    D Martin Non member

    Why change something that works ?
    Other things may differ but surely the current format would still work.
    For the worlds for example a common format would have to be used which I believe it now is.

    I'd go for the option of 12ft/lb limit and uka rules.

    Just as a matter of interest what would be your ideas Brian ?
     
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  6. rich

    rich Active Member

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    How do you know that 12 ft lb HFT works in countries that don't permit that level of power?

    This wasn't an invitation to meddle with the format of the UK game; it was a request for ideas that would make HFT accessible in other parts of the world beyond these shores, where different circumstances apply. :)

    Oh and hopefully might lead to international competitions that weren't loaded one way or the other for the host nation.
     
  7. raygun

    raygun Non member

    You would really have to change it for the U.K. as well.

    No point in going to a competition abroad when you've never shot to the rules, course format and power.
    An agreement would have to be reached that all participating Countries would follow, that way wherever you shoot it would be the same.

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  8. D Martin

    D Martin Non member

    [QUOTE=rich

    Oh and hopefully might lead to international competitions that weren't loaded one way or the other for the host nation.[/QUOTE

    Speak for yourself some of us need all the help we can get ;)

    Dave
     
  9. D Martin

    D Martin Non member

    How do you know that 12 ft lb HFT works in countries that don't permit that level of power?

    So how does it work with FT then ?
     
  10. Bellerophon

    Bellerophon Active Member

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    You blatantly don't knock many targets ove if you use this!
     
  11. BOMBER

    BOMBER Little French Maid

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    Seeing as the worlds have been shot very successfully for the past four years I would stick to that format as its allready established. Dont try and fix what isnt broke as we have been down similar routes in the past and in my opinion it just opens up pointless debates by people that dont even shoot hft.
     
  12. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    I'm not suggesting that UKA rules be changed :confused:
    In fact, I'm not suggesting anything, I'm asking a question.

    The South Africa rules are already max 14fpe, and there are questions on their forum about allowing 18fpe because it's a more common power level for them.

    I've only shot International HFT once in Poland, and I've got to say, it was the most enjoyable shoot I've ever been to. It would be great if other shooters got the chance to shoot the Worlds in another country other than the UK.

    I have no idea how that would work, but it would be sad to see the rug being pulled from under your feet from the outset.
     
  13. rich

    rich Active Member

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    FT in the USA has a number of significant differences from FT here, and the power issue is only just one of them.

    In FT, if you go to another country you expect variations from the rules that you are used to at home, so long as the core rules are adhered to. I see no reason why that shouldn't work in HFT. Yes, it's right to expect the courses to be of a common standard of difficulty; nobody wants to travel thousands of miles for a walkover course that is no real test, or one that is impossibly tough. But within that, there is ample scope surely for course designers to be creative. They are now.

    The OP was asking for ideas, I've just put some forward. :)
     
  14. D Martin

    D Martin Non member

    If that's the case and they were to allow say 18fps then I have no idea of how to equal out the playing field. I can't see UK shooters wanting or even legally being able to alter their rifles, especially Springer shooters who spend hundreds of pounds and a lot of time getting their kit shooting as best possible at under 12 ft/lb.

    Maybe the same course format as we have over here now but with different power classes but how many classes would that make? Open over 12, Open under 12, Springer over 12, Springer under 12 etc,etc.

    Shooters who travel to the UK for the world's seem happy to do it and shoot to the UK rules and regulations and it seems to be working if the last 4 year's has anything to go by.
    The 2 Pete's who already make an excellent job of organising both UKAHFT and WHFTA would probably have thought of something by now if it was possible or viable to try.

    Another question is how many would travel or could afford such an event, no more than a handfull I'll bet.
    I take it that the comp you shot in Poland was to their rules Brian, how did they differ if any to ours ?
    Best idea I can think of is if you're willing or able to travel to shoot HFT then respect the fact that you shoot to the hosting countries limitations and rules.
    The other option is stay on UK soil and enjoy what we have.

    I know nobody's trying to change things by the way and I doubt if you could :) Just can't suggest anything else
     
  15. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Hi Dave

    Different power classes seems like a sensible suggestion - that's what they did in Poland when we shot out there.

    Their rules were quite different to ours - I think it was 3 points for a kill and 1 for a faceplate instead of 2 and 1. Also you weren't allowed to use a peg for support, but Gary Cooper had a word with the organisers and they relented on that rule for the English shooters. In hindsight - the UK shooters took the first 5 places in the comp and the fact that they'd changed the rules at the last minute to accomodate us didn't go down too well with everyone there.

    They also had shooters from different parts of Europe who could only shoot sub 7.5 Joules so they had a class for that type of shooter.

    That might be the way forward - sub 7.5J, sub 16J and 16J+

    Another difference they had in Poland which seemed like a good idea - they had two targets on each lane, if you were shooting with a 12fpe gun you had to shoot both targets, but if you were shooting in the sub 7.5J class, you could choose to shoot one of the targets twice instead of shooting both of the targets.

    To be honest, with the price of petrol these days, it's probably cheaper to get a cheap flight to Poland than it is to drive to the south coast of England.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
  16. D Martin

    D Martin Non member

    Hmmmm interesting, no pegs and two lanes sounds a more like our SFT than the HFT we're used to.

    Bet the peg issue went down well :) but that sort of thing would have to be made universal.

    To be honest, with the price of petrol these days, it's probably cheaper to get a cheap flight to Poland than it is to drive to the south coast of England.
    Yeah but I bet South Africa would work out more expensive than a weekend at M.A.D ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2012
  17. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    A bit like SFT - targets out to 45m I think, but I'm sure there was a 47 yard stander and a 52 yard kneeler thrown in there for good measure. And sitting wasn't allowed.

    I know P&P do a good job of organising things - UKAHFT's been running for what about 9 or 10 years now and it didn't really take off until around 2004, so it took a couple of years to get off the ground over here.

    South Africa do very well in FT and if HFT takes off over there it could be that in 2 or 3 years time they could have a very strong HFT team.
     
  18. D Martin

    D Martin Non member

    Things really do seemed to have changed with HFT and it's very popular now. I find it encouraging that you can ask for ideas on how ti develop it in Europe when not so many years ago I would have been slated for even trying to improve things on a club level wouldn't I ?

    I know you don't put up empty threads without thinking long and hard about things first, you're too clever for that so you probably already have lots of ideas yourself which is great.

    I don't think it would be so popular with the hardcore UK HFT crowd though if it ended up a variant of SFT as this is seen by many as just a way of practice in winter where regular HFT comps aren't been held. This is why many travel to places like the North West where their gauntlet series has really taken off.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2012
  19. Dazzzle

    Dazzzle New Member

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    You only have to look at the attendance at the first 3 Nationals this year to see how popular HFT has become. The 2 Petes certainly keep their "eye" on the ball and are probably willing to consider viable suggestions as D Martin said earlier.
     
  20. D Martin

    D Martin Non member

    Up at this time to travel all the way to Wales to shoot 30 targets. Yep it works as it is or we wouldn't keep doing it. :)
     

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