Inclined shooting chart

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by garym, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. garym

    garym Active Member

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    I once downloaded a inclined shooting chart for FT 12 ft lbs. Went to open it today and half the info is missing. It is a pdf file.
    Anyone got anything similar or any links?
    Just trying to fathom out FT. ;) Clicks I now understand, mag does not alter with clicks:). Hold under etc I tend to do by instinct. Now I want to dial............ the chart that I thought would give me some indication / pointers is corrupt. Anyone any idea what I read, or need?
    Thanks Gary
     
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  2. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    Keep thing simple. Don’t get too concerned about it.

    Aiming inside bottom of kill will do the job, works for me...most of the time, the rest of the time I’m just rubbish!

    What I’ve found is that the angles required to dramatically change your POI for air rifle distances would require the user to adopt a highly uncomfortable and potentially unsafe shooting position so should be avoided by course builders.
     
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  3. garym

    garym Active Member

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    I am happy with that Conor. Thanks.
    My first year shooting FT and I came last everytime, that is me being rubbish. But I hope some of the Bulgarian course setters soon realise that some positions are unsafe, they also play havoc with my piles!
    Back to me practicing. A genuine thanks Conor.
     
  4. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    Get the parallax set up correctly and ensure it correlates with your clicks.
    That is very important, then it’s paramount to learn how to calculate/judge/guess wind drift.

    Let’s not get into daft course design that some of our European friends are obsessed with, those inclined circus shots are for Mickey Mouse and friends, not FT shooters.
     
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  5. panaman

    panaman New Member

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    I've made a simple table conversation chart. I would like to share it with anyone interested.
    On perpendicular axis are the angle (yellow) readings you estimate or take from your protractor.
    On orizontal axis are the distances in meters (yellow) readings from your scope.
    What this chart is giving you ,is the correct distance for your elevation turret. Many distances are missing but you can interpolate them with your mind not so difficult if get using it.
    For example 30m inclined distance 28 degrees downhill or uphill is about 27-28m on your elevation turret.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  6. garym

    garym Active Member

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    I saw a guy from Athens using a similar chart when shooting in Troyan Bulgaria. Alex was his name.
    Now I know and understand a bit more of the FT black magic.
    Thanks Gary
     
  7. panaman

    panaman New Member

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    Alex I guess is using the full chart (2m and 2degrees increments) or is using hold over-under (depends on your zero) like Conor described.
    My chart is simplified yet tiny enough you can print it and stick it somewhere in your equipment, or carried around and never get lost.
     
  8. garym

    garym Active Member

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    The chart was stuck to his stock. ;)
    Looked very similar, but my old eyes, do trick me.

    Your simplified chart is perfect for my simple mind. :)
    Thanks, I value your contribution. Regards Gary
     
  9. garym

    garym Active Member

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    Now can someone recommend me a incline measure.:)
    This season I am not coming last everytime. :eek:
     
  10. simona

    simona Active Member

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    It's very tricky to dial for elevation. What you need to do is dial for the difference in pellet drop between say 37 and 34 yards. This is not precisely the same as dialing for 34 yards on the flat as dialing fixes two things, the offset between the barrel and line of sight and the pellet drop. The first factor dosen't change with differences in elevation but the second, pellet drop, does. Therefore just dialing for a horizontal 34 yard target will not be absolutely correct on an elevated target which has a gravity perpendicular range of 34 yards as the offset correction component will still need correction for 37 yards.

    An obvious way to illustrate this is that the clicks between 34 and 37 yards will be very different on a combo with a 2 inch scope hight and a combo with a 3.5 inch scope hight but the pellet drop difference (with same pellet and velocity) will be exactly the same and it's this you need to correct for on elevated targets.

    If you want to dial this out properly you need to know the true drop differential between the line of sight and gravity perpendicular distances and the number of clicks you need to correct for that differential.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  11. MikeSeago

    MikeSeago Sloth like member

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    I knew there was an easier way than a chart !
    I plan to do all the calculations in my head and then pull the trigger just before it explodes !
    Sorted
     
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  12. simona

    simona Active Member

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    Just aim a bit low Mike.
     
  13. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    The chart is incorrect for distances below 30yrds.

    Using the chart;
    If you dial your 14yrd setting for a 16yrd target at 30 degrees you are in actual fact aiming higher as you are dialing your turret up.

    As Simon has already stated you haven’t allowed for the height of the scope above the barrel, most FT scopes are relatively high above the boreline.
     
  14. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    That chart uses the 'Rifleman's Rule' which is wrong for airguns.
     
  15. MikeSeago

    MikeSeago Sloth like member

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    Thanks Simon. My kind of calculation
     
  16. garym

    garym Active Member

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    Today I tried Conors suggestion, aim low. As definate improvement in my hits. Using the clicks as normal for the distance plus a element of hold under to compensate for the incline, I have something that my brain is able to work with.
    Keep it simple, another lesson learnt. :)
     
  17. Pavel

    Pavel New Member

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    GaryM, things are not so complicated and you should not see them as complicated.
    You do not need many data tables and any other confusing information.
    Everything can be calculated in mind for seconds. Everything is in the head.
    You can replace an angles with a number (coefficient) to calculate the adjustment of the tumbler settings. You can get this number with a little software playing.
    This is my inclinometer. IMG_20181224_173749.jpg

    For example, against 40 degrees is a factor of 0.8.
    If I measured 40m and the slope corresponds to 0.8 I calculate the following 4 X 0.8 = 3.2 MOA
    This means I have to return 3.25MОA from 40m

    Another example.
    20 degrees and 47 meters calculate it quickly as 50meters - 5 x 0.2 = 1MOA back from 47m.
     
  18. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm confused.

    Inclinometers are called cosine indicators. What they do is give you the cosine of any angle and you multiply that with the range to get you the range you should dial. Theory aside from if that works with airguns (because their target range can be closer than their 'zero', where as bullet guns it's often way beyond it), that's what you're supposed to do.

    So if you range a 50m target and you see it's angle is 25 degrees, it's cosine (near as damnit) is 0.9. So you multiply 50m x 0.9 which gives you 45m. You dial for 45m, whatever clicks that is for your trajectory.

    I've had an inclinometers on my rig for several years. In all the time of shooting local, regional, national and international events I can say the only time I've come across a target that needs any significant adjustment it was so steep the shooting position was the problem, not the dialing. Most of the times what is thought to be steep is way less than expected, and way less than what needs adjustment. At the last comp there was a 25mm up a tree at 13 or 14 yards. It looked high and steep. My widget told me it was about 15degrees or cosine 0.96 and meant about a 1/2 yard difference, which was about 4 x 1/8th clicks or about 2mm.

    I haven't tested the theories. In the close ranges it needs to be so super steep to make a difference, even on small kills, that position would be my biggest problem, and in long ranges it needs to be so high that I don't have access to that sort of range. I guess a day at Quarry is in order one day, but the thing only stays on my rig because it holds my spirit level.

    There's cheap ones on Amazon which are about 1/1oth of the price of the pukka expensive ones, and although they feel a bit cheaper I'm sure given the actual benefit for FT they're probably overpriced at that. YMMV.
     
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  19. garym

    garym Active Member

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    But everything is complicated Pavel, ;). I understand maths and physics. Occasionally I understand
    logic.:eek:
    Why not tell me your secrets earlier? I see you at FT Bulgaria, you know I watch and try to learn.
    Freudian methods ?
     
  20. mpr

    mpr might not remember

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    Ft I don't know.
    We hft just practice.
    Site and see lol
     
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