has the law ever tested your gun

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by stuart owen, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. stuart owen

    stuart owen New Member

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    as the title really,and if so under what circumstances .
     
  2. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    The thing to remember is they must have a reason to seize your rifle. If you have not broken a law or are not suspected of breaking a law they have no right to send your gun for testing.

    A copper saying he thinks it's over power is not enough.
     
  3. raygun

    raygun Non member

    Part of a BASC PDF.

    The difficulty comes when police officers want to seize airguns, firearms / shot guns for any
    other reason. There are many other circumstances where police, as a standard operating
    procedure, wish to remove firearms ‘just in case . Typically this takes place where disputes
    arise such as domestic incidents or when potentially malicious allegations are made. Often
    police will phrase questions in such a way that you voluntarily surrender the guns. Should
    you refuse, the only action the police can take is to make a request to the firearms
    licensing manager or relevant senior operational officer for the certificate(s) to be revoked.
    For low powered airguns, a letter of revocation cannot be issued as no licensing system
    exists for them, the police have to rely on convincing you to hand your airguns over; the
    police may only seize them if they have ‘reasonable grounds that an offence has been or is
    about to be committed and includes the reasonable suspicion that the muzzle energy of the
    air rifle is greater than 12 ft lbs (or over 6 ft lbs for an air pistol.) Such seizures may only
    take place under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act or the Firearms Acts. They can seize
    anywhere, with or without a warrant.


    Looks like they can.

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  4. biggeorge

    biggeorge Member

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    A lad at our local range got ran off the road before Christmas. He was taken to hospital and the police took his guns and tested them.
    He didn't know they needed a reason. They were taken to the local cop shop and then sent to Durham for testing. They were given the all clear and returned to his home address by firearms coppers.
     
  5. clubshot

    clubshot Member

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    I am informed by Police & Licensing Officers that the majority are tested following return from being Stolen

    Again it's down to each area on how they do their Job

    Aware of guns being tested when complaints about Shooting in Shooters Garden

    Especially if pellet or target falls outside their property

    Aware BASC Fire Arms Team have dealt with some over the years - from pass chat's

    BOB/R
     
  6. rich

    rich Active Member

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    Longer serving members may have heard this anecdote before; bear with me as the OP is a new member.

    Our club had a member with a Logun S16; the member lent the rifle to his brother. They were both aged in their late 20's and were entitled to possess an air rifle.

    The brother lived with his girlfriend at her mother's house. The mother didn't take to him much and she called the police and said he was being aggressive and "had a gun". The police arrived and took him into custody and seized the rifle, for testing.

    When tested it was found to be capable of 12.4 fpe.

    The police contacted the dealer who had sold it and he called me to ask if the club had any chrono records of this gun; naturally he wanted to make sure he was off the hook. We didn't have; if we had had, I doubt if we would have divulged any info.

    The owner asked for his gun back; the police refused as he didn't have a ticket. They wanted to destroy it. We at the club were able to show that the owner was of good character and was not the kind of person to knowingly own a hot rifle, and was manifestly not the type to "tune it up". He had neither the inclination nor the knowledge.

    Eventually the police agreed to let the original dealer send the rifle to Logun to be turned down, which he did. Once the rifle was certified as under 12 fpe the owner could have it back. In fact the owner no longer trusted the rifle to remain legal and he negotiated with the dealer to trade it in for something else.

    The dealer then sold the Logun to a new purchaser. I recall suggesting to the dealer that he should make the new owner aware of the gun's provenance, that the police probably held the serial number, but I got the impression he didn't intend to. He has since gone out of business.
     
  7. villiers

    villiers Self appointed antipimp

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    Location:
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    Was stop while loading my car at home

    Was loading my car one morning to go to a shoot , a passing police officer asked to see what I had , He was handed a cased airgun he asked that I show him what was in the case I told him I would not open the case on a public road and that he best get someone who knew what they where talking about . After a phone call back to base I was handed my cased rifle back and told to have a nice day.
    Through the whole thing I was polite but firm .;)
     
  8. hotversion

    hotversion Member

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    I thought if an air rifle was over 12lb ie FAC it could never be called anything else no matter what the power?
     
  9. raygun

    raygun Non member

    It's a "Confusion" the law or particularly the Statutory Instrument creates.

    A rifle is not "FAC" unless it has been put on ticket. A rifle may well be at FAC power levels but still off ticket.
    The reason that Forces will not remove an air rifle from being "on ticket" is that they have demonstrated they are "Capable" so therefore require a licence.

    Odd Forces would remove an FAC air rifle from "on ticket" but now records are computerised Nationally I don't know if this is still true.

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  10. daveuk

    daveuk New Member

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    George, any possibility of getting more information on this?.
    What were the circumstances that led up to him having his air rifles removed for testing?.
    How were the police aware that air rifles were present?

    Dave
     
  11. biggeorge

    biggeorge Member

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    He told me that he was on his way home from swarland range when he was cut up on the a1 and came off the road and crashed in a ditch.

    An ambulance was going the other way an saw this and turned round to help.
    They had him in the back and were checking him out and decided to take him in for a checkup as he has a bit of a dicky ticker.

    Plod turns up and says we'll tow the car to the yard for you, is there anything in the car you need?
    he says my fone and glasses and pills are in the front and then remembers his guns in the back.

    If i remember rightly plod is very pleasant and says we'll take them to the station for safekeeping, i think he said they'd be tested and may have read him his rights but i can't remember.
    he was told he could pick them up in a day or so.

    He calls the station and speaks to the copper who apologetically says they can't test them at the station so have been sent to durham for testing.
    A week later he gets a call from the plod who are going to drop the guns off at his house and arrange a time.
    Guns given the all clear and firearms coppers deliver the guns to him.

    He's got pistols but he had at least one rifle with him as he mentioned the scopes were smashed.
    Not sure if they were pcps or springers, ill ask him when i see him next.

    I'm finding this capability business and test centres turning guns up to get a nick VERY worrying.
     
  12. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Why would a policeman read you your rights at the scene of an accident?

    The answer to the OP, is no. Despite being stopped once with a rifle in an area where there was an issue with an idiot with one, I haven't.
     
  13. biggeorge

    biggeorge Member

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    i seem to recall something about it when he said he was seizing the guns, but i could be wrong.
    I can't remember the details.
    I'll ask him when i see him.
    I did explain that the copper shouldn't have taken the guns for testing.
     
  14. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    I'm no expert, but having your rights read would suggest you've been arrested!

    Perhaps it's best not describing the details on the case in an open public forum. It might be someone puts 2+2 together and comes up with 5 and tells someone else about it who makes it 12
     
  15. biggeorge

    biggeorge Member

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    Id ask him to post exactly what happened but he's not on any forums.
    I'm more concerned that a copper thinks being in a car accident is reason to seize air guns for testing.
    Doesn't exactly come under the seizure guidelines.
    He was stuck in a bad position as he was being taken to hospital and couldn't take the guns with him.
     
  16. raygun

    raygun Non member

    Wait while the Police can get a Warrant to search your property on "Suspicion" of an airgun offence being committed.

    :eek::eek::eek:

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  17. clubshot

    clubshot Member

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    Location:
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    VCR Act covers guns in Transit

    Rather awkward if Air Guns Found in Car with No Legal reason to be carrying

    Lea Valley is a Saturday Club and We supply a Probationary Card to cover those attending club

    Had calls in Week asking if named Shooter been to Club in Week

    Advise No and herd Officer advising Shooter that He lied about having a Legal Reason to Carry
    Air Guns -

    Aware if you have Written permissions - Different - but can not be carried on off chance
    you are going shooting

    Advised that Most Air Guns are Stolen from Vehicles - Than homes.

    BOB/R
     
  18. milek

    milek Member

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    I don't understand that; legal reason is legal ownership and not necessarily a reason or need to use??

    Having an airgun in a car without having somewhere to use it isn't illegal surely?
     
  19. raygun

    raygun Non member

    Unfortunately it is.

    Carrying firearm in a public place.

    A person commits an offence if, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse (the proof whereof lies on him) he has with him in a public place

    [F1(a)a loaded shot gun,

    (b)an air weapon (whether loaded or not),

    (c)any other firearm (whether loaded or not) together with ammunition suitable for use in that firearm, or

    (d)an imitation firearm.]


    If you are in a public place with your airgun then you have to have a "reasonable" excuse. Going to your permission/club/gunshop would be reasonable. Going to ASDA wouldn't.

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  20. valboskie

    valboskie Member

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    Location:
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    I know of 3 people who have had there air weapons tested.
    All 3 were shooting in there garden.
    All 3 were 50 feet from a public high way
    2 had a suitable back stop as the were shooting paper
    The other was shooting rat's in his garden.
    My mate was shooting rat's in his garden some community warden's parked up the hill from his house zoomed in there camera phoned the police armed response came .
    He got charged with reckless use of a firearm or something like that
    There was no back stop as he was close range ratting
    There is a closed fowl footpath the other side of his 12 foot hedge.
    He went to court he was only using his old Webley omega doing 8 fpe
    They returned his rifle he got a fine.

    The other one was two friends safely firing a pistol in the garden someone called the cops 2 armed response cars sent .
    They searched the house for the pistols but his mate had left with them 5 minutes earlier.
    Police did not believe him after the search they found his rifle so took those for testing they were all fine.
    He got a call a week later to pick them up.

    The last one was a co2 pistol shooting with a 6ft by 4 ft ply board as a back stop
    He had a plank nailed on the front a bucket underneath shooting at bottles and cans
    Again armed response but the paper got hold of this one he lives 600 yards from a school do they printed he endangered children ect
    It was a powerful pistol ect
    He is a waiting his court date his lawyer took pictures of enclosed back garden the big back stop
    There is rough ground behind
    So waiting to see what happens with that pistol was under 6fpe 4.3 it was

    Plinking in your garden in Scotland is a no no under the licensing proposal not a valid reason
    Even if it's done safely most people who see a gun they phone the police

    If I shot up the side of my house front garden to end of back garden I'd get 25 meters
    but I stay next to a road so I don't qualify as I'm less than 50 feet from a highway
    I have a 6 foot fence all the way round but still no good .
    It's a pity I would love to.have had the chance to practise more
     

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