Golly an aeron barrel

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by hmangphilly, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    Ok .
    A long waited arrival. Thanks to everyone who has helped get this here .

    It's another one of these blanks 16mm x 520 .

    First impressions .
    The ends are finished different to our previous blanks.
    There is still some ring type marking inside on the lands and grooves. Not as severe as ours.
    It is still possible to feel the pellet travelling over the markings . Much less than ours.

    The only thing that has been in here is a cotton bud and a few pellets .
    Nothing has been rotated .

    Mon Feb 12 23-03-56.jpg
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    Mon Feb 12 23-10-33.jpg
    Mon Feb 12 23-10-44.jpg
    Mon Feb 12 23-11-11.jpg
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    un finished leade and crown...........
    part pushed .............

    Mon Feb 12 23-51-27.jpg


    fully pushed...................



    Mon Feb 12 23-52-07.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  2. chloe

    chloe Member

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    Nothing to do with these Aeron barrels, but think you will find it interesting. On Airgun Nation and other sites pictures taken down Russian fake CZ barrels stamped on crown with CZ USA. If you wade down the pictures you come to some internal lighting using a red glow.They do look fake and CZ have stated only found fakes stamped with CZ USA. Not suggesting any Aeron barrels are involved. Alan
     
  3. NeilM

    NeilM Well-Known Member

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    Those pellets look better than some I have seen pushed through LG100 Steyr barrels and also original EV2 mk1 barrels that had genuine CZ barrels.

    On that; I was slightly involved with AA in 2003/4/5 when the Mk1 EV was launched, and the factory had a terrible time with CZ barrels that were doing the very same thing. At one time they had "a bucket full of reject barrels" as Bill put it, that is why they changed to LW barrels. I was supposed to be getting a number of the reject barrels with a view to trying to find a way to improve them, lapping / polishing was my intention, but that never happened
     
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  4. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    Ok
    here's a comparison .
    Our no2 barrel .
    Totally virgin
    This one was referred to here ..........https://shooting-the-breeze.com/threads/lead-in.39821/page-6...........it's the one with the big burr at the crown.

    WE REALISE THESE ARE BOUGHT AS BLANKS AND ARE INTENDED TO BE MACHINED TO A FINISH AT THE ENDS .
    Tue Feb 13 07-39-04.jpg Tue Feb 13 07-39-16.jpg Tue Feb 13 07-39-38.jpg Tue Feb 13 07-39-46.jpg Tue Feb 13 07-44-59.jpg Tue Feb 13 07-45-08.jpg Tue Feb 13 07-45-18.jpg Tue Feb 13 07-45-38.jpg Tue Feb 13 07-51-58.jpg

    Rob will go mental .

    Some of these pics are off centre ..............

    Same feel with this barrel or actually a bit worse than the Golly barrel . Notchy.
    The pellet was shoved as far as the burr on the crown and then backed out . sure that burr would be taken out in our machining . at the moment we want to leave this virgin .


    Do these tooling Marks matter .? ..............I don't know but i wish they were not there .

    Will the barrels shoot straight ?.............. the only way to find out is machine 'em up and shoot them .........we already did that with No.1 and its not grouping at the moment.

    Will these barrel pick up lead faster than a smooth one . I don't know, but my intuition is that they would .... the only way is machine 'em up and try .


    The only comparisons we have are other brands , which are just totally smooth to look at .....mirror finish .....and smooth to push through .
    Again , intuition would say smooth would be best , but barrels and pellets are funny and who knows .

    The Golly barrel is not for us and represents a significant investment ........certainly enough to buy another barrel ........so I'm need to talk to the owner about whether to machine it or not ..............

    we will persevere with trying to get No 1 to behave , frankly I'm dubious .................but i was wrong once before ...............


    chloe if you have a link ...................


    BEFORE THIS THREAD STARTS TO GO THE WRONG WAY .


    THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A HATCHET JOB ON THIS PRODUCT OR SUPPLIER .
    I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO THE SUPPLIER YET . I INTEND TO IN DUE COURSE
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  5. chloe

    chloe Member

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    Easy way Google Scam alert CZ USA hammer forged barrels, brings up Airgun nation page others seem to have mostly copied this post and images.A few on Google images as well.Have a look at red lighting and where the logo stamp falls on the crown. Alan
     
  6. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    Thanks Alan .
    That barrel looks to be a different beast from these .
     
  7. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    lw offcut

    prob had all sorts shoved up it , but does not show the same type tooling marks .
    some scuffing but goes along the bore not across..............cant guarantee that 's not down to me.

    Does this make it better than the aeron ?
    We just don't know . Just showing some differences in finish .

    Any opinions , feel free to chip in .............

    Tue Feb 13 09-32-11.jpg Tue Feb 13 09-32-47.jpg Tue Feb 13 09-33-45.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  8. SteveC200

    SteveC200 Active Member

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    If the rifling is cut the same way as in this video.... then I presume its the honing process thats poor, maybe a worn out tool? If it was when the grooves are cut the scratching would be lengthways.
     
  9. NeilM

    NeilM Well-Known Member

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    I thought AERON barrels where hammer forged.

    LW barrels are button drawn.
     
  10. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    Hammer forged /chocked ...............according to the supplier

    Aeron - Sure Shot Airguns

    not exactly sure what that forward slash means .........
     
  11. NeilM

    NeilM Well-Known Member

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    Those marks must be post forging as the mandrel is drawn out of the barrel and any marks in the tooling would show as lines along the lands not across them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  12. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    They don't fill me with confidence I'm afraid Neil

    this one's interesting especially what yer man says at 2,20 and again at 6.00.......that bloke must have had the day off

     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  13. NeilM

    NeilM Well-Known Member

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    Me neither, and I was assured by Matt that they were the real deal.
     
  14. what barn door

    what barn door Now them tin chickens are going to get it....

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    For what it's worth I doubt very much that these aeron barrels will be any good, I have never looked down a good barrel and seen anything like those peaks and troughs. As you have spent money on these barrels I hope you can proove me wrong Phil.
     
  15. Monty

    Monty Senior Moment

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    I'm inclined to go with SteveC200 on this one. The concentric grooves look very much like those caused by a drill/reamer and they do appear to go down into the grooves. I would guess that either they were badly reamed, possibly with a bad tool or it started to eat it's own swarf OR those groves are normal and the cold hammering process basically knocks the carp out of them so they dissapear in the finished item.

    I had originally thought it might be a chattering mandrel but they're scratches rather than chatter marks.
     
  16. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    Not just me Ian .

    thanks for the kind wishes
     
  17. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    Those vids go wobbling on about reaming and honing the barrel prior to hammering .
    Presumably to get the size and proper finish on the hole before they batter it senseless
     
  18. Monty

    Monty Senior Moment

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    I would hazard a guess that the reaming process should leave the bore fairly clear of marks but whilst finish is important it's predominantly about size. Not sure how good you'd ever get the finish in a mass production environment with tooling that has to pay it's way and turn a profit. The centres of the lands were 'relatively' good, it was far worse on the edges. I would guess that the amount of surface pressure would be less at the edges during the forging process as the material is going down into the groove so the ability of the hammer to remove them is lessened because the steel has somewhere to go. The groves/scratches are very well defined with no hint of smearing down the bore so look like they were cut with something small, sharp and rotating at some point during the manufacturing process.

    Might be a duff reamer or might be insufficient pressure during forging, possibly the OD of the blank prior to forging was a tiny bit too small because in the vid it looked like the 4 parts of the hammer determined the new OD and therefore how much of a beating it took. I'm thinking that bigger beating = better internal finish (subject to the limitations of the mandrel)?

    I'd say it's missed at least one, possibly 2 significant factory QA checks given the problem is visible to the naked eye. Answers on a post card!
     
  19. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    Dunno mate ..,,,

    Seems the bloke with the Borescope was in the Khazi when these went through .

    Been mucking about with bits of lead ...............thanks for all them scrap pellits by the way .

    Made me spout ...........then modified it :eek:

    Had a little pour ...............well you gotta try it out ain't ya..............:)

    Thought i'd better shove it in .................well , errrrrrrrrrrrr .................yep , that removes metal

    o_O

    half the story .......but ,,,,,,,,,,,
    image.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  20. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    oh flippin' 'eck how do i swizzel that pic around ?
     

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