FX Crown for bench rest

Discussion in 'Benchrest' started by Amac, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Amac

    Amac Active Member

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    Just wondering if anybody has used the FX Crown in this role? Having been really impressed with the example I have just bought, I intend to try it.
    I would be interested if anybody out there has any experience using the gun "benched."
    Thanks,
    Andy
     
  2. lrob

    lrob Member

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    Interested in this as well as I've just been offered a swap for one of my airguns for a Crown, told the bloke I'd have a think about it.
     
  3. paul.w

    paul.w Member

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    I was interested in this rifle to. but not heard anything good about it yet. Most say there disappointed with it. One guy that I spoke to said his was very pellet fussy!!! It was the fac spec I saw advised and liked. With the dial for adjusting the reg pressure,
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  4. lrob

    lrob Member

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    I mates' friend has one in F.A.C which he uses for hunting and has said that it is probably the best rifles he has ever owned.
     
  5. rafa

    rafa New Member

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    i was told of a guy that is selling one to leave it well alone as he has had loads of problems with his
     
  6. lrob

    lrob Member

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    Cheers Rafa, I'll bear that in mind if I decide to go ahead.
     
  7. Spray1Mark

    Spray1Mark Member

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    Having had 3 or 4 Crowns I will point out the following;

    None of the sub 12 guns shot to my level of expectation out of the box. My current FAC Crown is brilliant but it took me a fair while to really understand the flexibility of the gun.

    The gun design and build and aesthetics are wonderful, love the stock, it's great to shoot from the bench using a bipod with a rail fitted.

    In order to keep the Crown UK legal it is factory set with reg pressure very low, the old reg doesn't work well this way, in line with the FX Impact I think the latest Crowns have the larger bodied reg, which works better at 12FPE levels.

    The .22 Crown I had was sold to someone whe took it to AIRFECTIVE, the UK FX service people and they removed the AT and re-set up the gun with a higher reg pressure (circa 100 bar) and re-sealed everything, the gun now shoots brilliantly.

    After having a sub 12 Impact a long while back I now have another one except with the new reg and the difference is night and day.

    Personally I would go the following way, if you want a gun that shoots out of the box without any tinkering then buy a Redwolf. If you are happy to buy the gun and pay to get it properly tuned then buy the Crown.
     
    paul.w likes this.
  8. lrob

    lrob Member

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    Thanks for that Mark
     
  9. lrob

    lrob Member

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    Out of interest, what is the Regulator pressure set at as standard in sub 12 out of the box?
     
  10. Spray1Mark

    Spray1Mark Member

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    50-60 bar!
     
  11. lrob

    lrob Member

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    cheers
     
  12. bobt

    bobt New Member

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    Did you ever get an answer ? I am sure I read somewhere that they are doing very well in the states but no idea on the sub 12ftlb version.
     
  13. Amac

    Amac Active Member

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    I found that the Crown was good, but not as accurate out of the box as a Red Wolf. Ended up buying one of them and remain very impressed with it.
    Andy
     
  14. azuaro

    azuaro Senior Member

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    Yes, there are many shooters in the USA using FX Crowns for 25M BR in both classes: 20 ft./lb. (HV) and 12 ft./lb. (LV) very successfully...I installed a scope and tuned one of these Crowns for a friend who wanted to shoot HV and use the same gun for Silhouettes at 40-50-60 and 70M...The gun is very precise and she has won several competitions.

    Both FX Crown and FX Impact are very precise guns if set and tuned correctly, the Impact is like a Ferrari in the sense that "it gives you a lot but requires a lot of tuning/maintenance" (too many O Rings and moving parts)...The Crown is as accurate as the Impact but has less O rings and requires much less maintenance.

    There are NO issues with Crowns within shooters who give them the normal maintenance that gun requires.

    Best regards,

    AZ
     
  15. Jesim1

    Jesim1 Active Member

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    Really? My six week old Crown was okay at best, but never great, I sold it and bought a Red Wolf which was far better out the box, perhaps the Crown needed servicing after 6 weeks to bring it up to scratch - nah, that would be silly :eek:

    To make your statment your deluding yourself:rolleyes:
     
  16. azuaro

    azuaro Senior Member

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    Deluding myself? :D

    My experience has been that ALL guns of any brand require tuning out if the box if you are in search of most precision, nevertheless some guns turn out more precise than others as they come from the factory, even within same brand and model.

    The Crown I am talking about (The one I tuned for a friend) shot OK out of the box, but not good enough for very high end competitive BR...This gun was shooting .230" c.t.c. 5 shot groups (weighing and head sizing pellets) at 25M as it came from the factory which turned out to be consistent 243's-245's or around 730-735 points for the 3 targets in a match...

    After tuning, it went to 247's-248's (740-743 point - 3 targets) which doesn't seem much improvement but keep in mind that marginal points above 245-246 for a single target in BR at 25M are very hard to achieve...I don't keep guns that are not capable of 749-750 consistent points (3 targets) while tuning them shooting INDOORS, I spend tons of time tuning my guns and if necessary I personally re-barrel and make regulators/valves/hammers, etc. for them.
    The mark is very high because where I shoot a 741-742 (3 targets) outdoors with wind gets you out of the podium...The Crown that my friend Eileen shoots is usually among the top 3-5 places.

    Good straight barrels are the most important part of a gun if the gun has a good platform to start with, and no two guns of the same brand and model shoot the same out of the box.

    Bottonline, spend the time and tune that Crown very carefully, it is worth it as those platforms are good and reliable and the balance of this gun is perfect for benchrest.

    Best regards,

    AZ

    PS. Daystate Red Wolfs and the new Safaris do very well in this area at 50, 75 and 100M...None of those guns has ever won a 25M benchrest championship and none did well at the nationals, RAW TM-1000's and BM-500's followed by Thomas and other 2-3 brands usually take the first 5 places...
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
  17. Jesim1

    Jesim1 Active Member

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    No offence AZ - but what you describe above is wayyyyyyy more than the "normal maintenance" which I eluded to in your last post - your basically taking an ok gun and redoing it to a high specification, which is great, but the OP wants to know if people are using an out of the box gun like his for BR in local BR comps/clubs, as this is what he has bought :oops:

    As I said, they are decent guns, I'm not knocking them, and they will do what the OP refers to, but to be competitive there are better guns for the same money without resorting to - and I quote yourself in this: "I spend tons of time tuning my guns and if necessary I personally re-barrel and make regulators/valves/hammers, etc. for them" :rolleyes:

    So perhaps in the States they are brilliant, or even after they have been stripped and re done to a high standard, but here your unlikely to see one in any competition what so ever - on any platform, that's how good they are in comparison to similar guns of that type, they are just .....................…. okay :p
     
  18. azuaro

    azuaro Senior Member

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    I am going to have to go long on this one, its worth reading it...

    "No offence AZ - but what you describe above is wayyyyyyy more than the "normal maintenance" which I eluded to in your last post - your basically taking an ok gun and redoing it to a high specification, which is great, but the OP wants to know if people are using an out of the box gun like his for BR in local BR comps/clubs, as this is what he has bought :oops:"

    The answer is YES, people are using them (FX Crowns) out of the box in local BR comps/clubs and are doing as good as the prevalent competitive level in the club.
    We need to understand and differentiate the levels of competition so we can be in the same frequency...
    You can shoot Benchrest with ANY gun and have lots of fun and camaraderie and maybe win once in a while...
    You can shoot Benchrest with a good dedicated gun, also have fun and win more of the competitions and finally,
    You can compete with the cream of the crop in the area/state or country where you live and for being competitive at that level, you require a good dedicated gun with a very good/outstanding barrel and a good tune.



    "As I said, they are decent guns, I'm not knocking them, and they will do what the OP refers to, but to be competitive there are better guns for the same money without resorting to - and I quote yourself in this: "I spend tons of time tuning my guns and if necessary I personally re-barrel and make regulators/valves/hammers, etc. for them" :rolleyes:"
    The answer is NO, there are no guns of any brand that will win a national or world competition OUT OF THE BOX, but I don't mean to say that out of the box guns as you are mentioning will not be competitive or win local competitions...
    Even the shooters who buy the $4500 to $5000 Thomas BR guns that are supposed to be very good out of the box modify and tune them...Thomas guns do OK out of the box but they do as good as good $2K+ guns do (RAW and other)... Shooters winning high level competitions either tuned their guns themselves or hired someone else to do the job...
    Make no mistake, nobody has won a national or world competition with an out of the box gun...To me the secret to be on top of podium is to start with a good solid and reliable platform, find a good barrel and spend time doing a good tuning and matching the components of your gun (or spend $$$ and have somebody do it for you).


    So perhaps in the States they are brilliant, or even after they have been stripped and re done to a high standard, but here your unlikely to see one in any competition what so ever - on any platform, that's how good they are in comparison to similar guns of that type, they are just .....................…. okay :p
    The US has good tuners and very good shooters as you have in the UK and as other countries around the world have...In the UK ask Colin, Jon, Neil, Eaton, etc. who are very sharp needles and very good FT/BR shooters, all of them tune their guns...
    What has happened here in the US is NOT that somebody is brilliant, what's happening is that air gunning became a fever in the last 5 years and then the fever has been commercialized with big prizes...Look for example at "The Extreme Benchrest of Arizona" with $5-8K individual prizes each and every year, "The Rocky Mountain Challenge" sponsored by FX got even better last year with up to $20K prizes in many categories and the ball keeps on rolling...The big $$$ attracted shooters from all over the world: South Africa, Russia, Central and South America (Chile and Argentina) and several other countries.
    Note: If you want to see a commercialized air gun world, please log into "Airgun Nation"...70% or more of the topics are about FX guns ( I don't read nor participate in that forum)

    I compete in Arizona (USA), that is one of the highest levels of competition in the USA... Shooters around there participate at the Extreme Bench Rest, Rocky Mountain Challenge, the Nationals and the Worlds...So when shooting a "local competition", you will encounter 25-50 excellent shooters including national and world champions, winners from the EBR or the Rocky Mountain Challenge, or all of them together...Anyone can win in that kind of environment.

    If you want to be competitive and WIN you are obligated to "Hot Rod" your gun, everybody does...You can not beat those top shooters with an out of the box gun no matter what brand it is, how expensive/how good it is even if you are an outstanding super shooter.
    What I am saying is that for competing against the best of the best here in the USA or anywhere in the world you need a good platform, a good barrel & good optics and very good tune or better stay home and watch TV...
    A RAW platform is as good as an Anschutz, Steyr, Feinwerkbau, Air Arms, Daystate, Walther, or ???

    Please look at the table below, those are the National Rankings of the top 5 shooters in the USA from last year ...The rankings are obtained by adding the highest 9 registered targets shot during the season, the maximum score is 2250...These scores are shooting OUTDOORS with wind, rain and in one or two matches we had snow and 20's temperatures...

    Notice the high numbers required to be on the top 5 places and see what guns people are using...The shooter (Jeff Crisler) who appears without a gun brand uses RAW BM for both HV and LV, he didn't rank better because he missed a few matches.
    Note: I know all of those shooters and NONE of them are using out of the box guns.

    Concluding: The top 10 rankings in the US are split between Raw and Thomas, but Steyr and RAW led both classes for 1/2 the price of the very expensive Thomas. The LV class (Upper left) was won with a Steyr LG-110, that gun out of the box never shot above 242-243 (per target)...But then after installing an outstanding barrel, a custom made reg and much tuning that gun became an FT and LV (Benchrest light Varmint) class killer.

    Thomas guns are well built as any of the brands mentioned but the manufacturer spends time tuning them and claims that the brand is competitive out of the box, the Thomas copied the technology of the US FT BR (see:AIRGUNS) and they are competitive to some point, afterwards you still need to improve the factory tuning...The only reason for these guns to be so expensive is the claimed tuning time done at the factory. I dislike the design and the looks and would never consider buying one, but I've shot one of them and it was a good machine.
    Note: The US FT BR gun (link above) dominated the BR circuit in the USA until the owner decided to slow down and took a very log break.

    The HV class TM-1000 at the top right of the table is a very highly customized gun with many hours of engineering and tuning and with the most precise barrel I've ever shot (powder burning or air), this gun has never lost a competition nor shot below 247 points on a single card outdoors, or 743 points in a combined 3 card match (shooting outdoors)...
    This TM-1000 has shot many 750's OUTDOORS and has invaded other higher classes (open) and won all the times (Arizona competitions against Thomas and other brands shooting the open class)...Those achievements will never be shot with any out of the box gun.

    About upgrading cheaper platforms:
    The Steyr and RAW are both cheaper than for example an Anschutz or a Daystate Safari, and both brands are about 40% the cost of the overpriced Thomas.
    Note: By comparison, I have a LV (12 ft/lb) Anschutz 9015 that shoots very well and it is supposed to be a much better/more expensive gun than my Steyr LG-110, but the Anschutz in its present configuration (tuned with factory barrel) is NOT nearly as precise as the Steyr.

    Conclusion: Start with a good platform and tune it to the best of your capabilities, it is very rewarding to see your improvements...Or pay somebody else to do it for you, or spend double or triple the money and buy a gun like the Thomas which is as mentioned, a good competitive machine out of the box.


    The RAW is a UK design, Martin R. was CEO of Theoben and RAW is basically an upgraded clone of the Theoben...Both brands have many parts that are interchangeable...
    There are many UK brands that have similar platforms to Theoben/RAW and if you ask me for my advice, I believe this is one of the best platforms to start with for precision shooting (FT or BR)...Very Simple-Solid and Reliable Mechanisms and a Very Sturdy Block and Trigger Group that will outlast you.

    I hope this long post clarifies what I tried to say in my original (previous) post...

    Best regards,

    AZ

    2018 USA National Rankings.JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
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