Full Rules for 2013

Discussion in 'UKAHFT Questions and Answers' started by A458, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. A458

    A458 Member

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    I have read the rules on the UKAHFT site, however, is there anywhere that specifically confirms whether reduced apature targets have the reducing in front or behind the aparture? I ask this as yesterday I shot a course and there was a question of positioning of the reduction apature, or doesn't it matter?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Cosford

    Cosford New Member

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    this was at my ground yesterday,when the manufacturer fits the bolt for the reducers to the back of the faceplate that is where the reducer fits, this is how they are supplied,
    I understand from conversations yesterday that the reducer at the front is a "gentlemans agreement "not a fixed rule.
     
  3. A458

    A458 Member

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    It was not me who originally questioned this; I am quiet happy to shoot (try) at any target presented by the organiser and have no issues with yesterday's course. It is merely that this was brought up and categorically advised of the positioning of the reducing aparture. The majority of shooters including myself were unaware of this however, I feel that there should be a definative answer, or not, as it is up to the manufacturer to position the reducing aparture as they feel, either in front or behind. Either way, it doesn't bother me, just trying to get a ruling if I can so that we are all aware. That's all.
     
  4. Tench

    Tench WHFTA World Champion 2016.

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    I think the issue here is a reducer fitted behind can look like the paddle when the paint has been shot off it making it a problem for shooters later in the session so the fact that it is a reducer is not obvious to some people and some scopes, most of us have some blur at some distances. Where a front mounted one is plain to see even when it is beaten up.
    Making the target fair for the whole session has to be the priority here.
     
  5. Cosford

    Cosford New Member

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    not a problem, yesterday was the first time I heard about this as being an issue and when I asked about it I was told it was a "gentleman's agreement " for them to be placed at the front ,
    yes the paint will come off fit hit , we could respray the targets but at what frequency?
    gentlemen's agreements are not rules and if only a few people know about this agreement how can it be implemented :eek:o
     
  6. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Yesterday was the first I'd heard of it too, although it's been a while since I set a course. I know I've got good glass but even before I did I can't say it's ever been a problem for me, just waggle the string like a normal reducer surely? :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  7. 5teve L

    5teve L STOP ! HAMMER TIME !

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    This is how I understood it as well.
    As it has been stated, at some distances, the rear reduced targets are hard to see once shot up, especially if they are 15mm close in or 25mm further out, hence I thought a rule being set about the target being reduced from the front only if a seperate part was used to reduce the kill size. IIRC MAD had a couple a year or two ago at a UK round that had been reduced from the rear (by accident, they were supposed to have been on the front of the target) & by the time a few people had shot them you could hardly make out wether the kill was full size or smaller..
     
  8. scutter

    scutter Aspiring to mediocrity

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    I think there is a bit of confusion about rules here.

    a few years ago, Maldon had some 40mm targets that were half obscured. Ian had plates welded to the back of the targets so that you could only use half the kill. The problem was, once the paint had been shot off the metal plate, it looked like a full size kill.

    The UKAHFT put a statement in the course setting notes, "Sent to all hosting clubs" that if a plate was to be used to obstruct a kill, it had to be on the front of the face plate, so if the paint is shot off, you can still see the obstruction.

    The targets used at Cosford were not 50% reduced kills. They were the targets that can be either a 25mm, 20mm or a 15mm etc

    Like this

    As far as I am aware, these do not fall into the same category as the half obscured targets and as such are fully legal

    Gary
     
  9. Ceathreamhnan

    Ceathreamhnan WHFTA Champion 2013

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    Surely it's common sense that the same would apply to a circular reduced target with a rear welded or bolted reduced plate?
    Could the course setting notes be published somewhere? I believe they also contain requirements for lack of twigs etc in front of the kill that is also a common bone of contention.
     
  10. Gerry

    Gerry Member

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    Wow ! I can not believe all this moaning !!!

    Surely this is a field target sport , thus , there are always going to be the odd twigs etc blowing accross a target !!!

    The face plates , well , every comp I have ever shot in , the face plates are reduced from the back , & every time , the guys around have warned each other to look carefully , because its a reducer .

    I really dont see what all the fuss is about .

    Especially as all the commercially made targets have the reducer plates at the back any way .

    Now if there is a rule made that the reducer has to be in front , smaller clubs will have to buy new targets.... adding to the cost of the comps .

    Entries are not nearly as many as a few years ago ...

    If entry fees go up , even fewer chaps will travel to shoot .

    I think the ruling should be " where possible , fit the reducer in front" .

    The course setter can always put a sign on the peg warning shooters of a rear fitted reducer as well , so if his shooting buddies dont warn him , its all going to be good .
     
  11. 5teve L

    5teve L STOP ! HAMMER TIME !

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    But if the reducing ring is on the rear like some i've seen you have the same problem as you had with MADs targets Gary. If they are front mounted then yes, no problem at all.
     
  12. willo

    willo Nikon Shooter

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    I like the way you have placed one of them there targets in your avatar so we can see it Greg ;)
     
  13. Sharpe

    Sharpe Semper fidelis

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    Where's the horses mouth? :eek: :D
     
  14. Ceathreamhnan

    Ceathreamhnan WHFTA Champion 2013

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    Lol you have a point Andy. That pic was taken in Jan last year, before any of my shooting partners had ever voiced any concerns about this sort of thing :D
     
  15. shaun eustace

    shaun eustace Member

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    Just under its nose I think...........:D
     
  16. Sharpe

    Sharpe Semper fidelis

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    Just what I.d expect from a Boer! :D
     
  17. Charlts

    Charlts Getting dusty

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    Shaun made a funny!:D:D
     
  18. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

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    I enjoyed yesterday's course and I also heard the talk about plates at rear of targets. I understand the logic of the arguament against that because shot up rear plates may look like the kill giving the impression the kill is bigger than it is. We have loads of targets like that at our club and I can understand the comment that it may mean clubs will have to buy new targets at more expense. Can the targets that are sold like this be easily converted to front plate?

    The other issue mentioned ... the twigs thing. With all respect when anyone questions anything like this there will always be the response ... Stop moaning and just shoot the target. Is this a Mickey Mouse sport or is it serious target shooting. If it's serious target shooting then it has to be done fair and right. There's always time in any serious sport for the banter and p1ss taking and the social side ... but if people are spending thousands of pounds on kit and putting the hours in practising, and getting up at 4 in the morning to travel to some shoots, spending money on fuel etc ... then for that brief moment when you are pulling the trigger it's serious. It's not about winning gonks ... it's about fairness.

    Some course setters may not be aware of certain issues so I see no harm in constructive comments that may mean for an even more enjoyable shoot the next time.

    It's never 100% fool proof but when setting a course I always get down in the prone position and check from as low as you can to quite a way up the peg ... on both sides for left and right handers ... to see if there is any long grass or twigs in the way. If there are then clear them. It probably sounds petty ... but I shot a course this winter where I'd spent a couple of hours getting to a shoot. First peg and I'm the first to shoot that peg. Not a difficult target ... 20mm at about 20 yards prone. Through the scope there is a twig just in front of the kill. My head was telling me to stop and ask a marshall to move it ... but I thought I'd look a right kn*b moaning about a twig on the first shot. I tried to manouvre around it and couldn't. So I thought the pellet would probably get past it anyway. Result ... doughnut ... on the first target. No one else needed to worry about that twig. Plus it was about 5 targets before I'd calmed down. So I don't blame people for asking for twigs and light stuff to be moved. Check it when setting the targets. It saves blowing whistles and stoppages during the comp. If it's a heavy branch etc that can't be shot out of the way and is deliberately placed there to make the shot awkward then no probs.
     
  19. blackscale

    blackscale Member

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    :rolleyes: I agree, we spend a lot of time trying to make sure that each target is fair and legal :D
    sometimes we make mistakes, or if the course is set the day before it can become semi obscured quite easily and missed on the pre-shoot inspection.
    If a twig or thick grass is obscuring the kill it should be 'called' otherwise that 'Zero' will ruin your day! :D

    We had a few targets with reducers on the rear, infact i made them, i didn't realise the potential problems they can cause...but at certain ranges they certainly can!
    Most times you can see that they are reduced by 'wiggling' the target, the majority of hft'ers have come to treat every target with caution as some of the easiest looking targets can be the ones that catch you out :D

    To sum up, in my opinion there will always be the odd shooter that moans, this can be very disheartening for a club that has most probably spent two days with a few guys building and checking their courses, the trick is to be a bit more tolerant of genuine mistakes and not be afraid to ask a marshal if he wouldn't mind moving a twig that obviously shouldn't be there....even if it's a little embarrassing.
    That said i have shot 'around' twigs before to save the embarrassment...:D:D
     
  20. Cosford

    Cosford New Member

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    I welcome comments good or bad as they help me improve the club, the comment about the reducers was the first i had heard of it ,when I asked about it with senior HFT shooters I was told that it was not a rule.
    the same targets were used last year for the same comp and nobody commented on them that time
    I have looked at the targets and can see how to modify them to front mounting
    as far as twigs and obstructions go ,3 of us checked the course on Saturday in a very strong wind ,the course was checked again on Sunday morning before the course opened , but not everybody's perception of an obstruction is the same
     

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