FT Rules around the world

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by Gibbs, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. Gibbs

    Gibbs New Member

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    Not only in the light of the 2011 world championship issues, but also because FT getting into the Olympics is only held back by a world wide lack of agreement, my question is;
    What are the differences in the various country's FT rules?
     
  2. greyskullnz

    greyskullnz Non member

    I'd venture a comment that it comes down to local laws.

    Not everyone around the World has a 12 ft/lbs energy restriction (Actually its only the UK), some are worse, some are better, some are good. There are other variations of laws on where you can legally use an airgun (such as an approved shooting range.....dead flat and boring).

    Where a law does not suppress the natural right to possess and use an airgun over 12 ft/lbs energy, FT has tended to develop along those allowed lines. What shooters can do domestically within their laws tend to have an effect upon the FT rules their National shooting body has in place.

    So imagine every law variation to do with Airguns, and then imagine what you would have in the UK if you had:

    a) No legal restrictions

    b) Severe restrictions

    c)sensible restrictions

    After imagining every scenario you could come up with, that is what there is within the WFTF. It is tempered by the 12 ft/lbs energy limit at World Champs matches, but domestically the differences persist, as do the attitudes of those who do not shoot Internationally wishing to retain their right to use their legally permitted equipment. Start telling them they cannot, and you lose disaffected shooters.......who are the basis of the sport.

    They all vote at their AGM's in one form or another, and do what they think is right for the survival of their domestic competitions........Worlds are not really their concern if they do not ever intend attending.

    Under those conditions, a 12 ft/lbs World Championship means very little to the average domestic voting membership. Until recently, 12 ft/lbs air rifles were not even imported to some Countries as they were not legally required. For the last 20 years 28-30 ft/lbs .22 cal PCP's were the ones imported here into New Zealand not .177............and the common energy level of the cheap springer here is still about 16-18 ft/lbs. Getting interest in WFTF Core Rules has been hard.......after all, why should they when they can enjoy their bazookas legally every other weekend, and be in the majority.

    But over the recent past we have strived to put in place a 12 ft/lbs category and adopt WFTF Core Rules as a default set of rules for that class only (any shooter wishing to shoot the Worlds MUST compete in that category to be familiar with the rules and equipment). If every RGB did that, it would soon develop into everyone being on the same page. Then only a small tweak to Core Rules every now and then would keep things ticking over, rather than having to rewrite the rulebook for the Worlds only.

    GS
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2011
  3. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    AFAIK to be an accepted RGB within the WFTF, 12ft/lb is specified.
     
  4. greyskullnz

    greyskullnz Non member

    Nope.

    The Constitution of the WFTF does not specify 12 ft/lbs as a default limit on any domestic activity.

    It is only a limit on rifles use at World Champs Events.
     
  5. Gibbs

    Gibbs New Member

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    Thanks for your reply, it's clear what a difficult job it would be to find parity across the world of FT.
    I guessed power limits/levels would play a part, but, I suppose with no power limit I wouldn't want to downsize my air rifle either and although it's only one international difference, it's a big one.
     
  6. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    If they don't use 12ft/lb or at least have a 12ft/lb class, why would a RGB want to become part of the WFTF then?
     
  7. greyskullnz

    greyskullnz Non member

    Within each group of air rifle shooters there are those who do wish to compete with the World on a level playing field, and others who are along for the ride.........and just participate for a hobby. They also have a voice, and need to be dragged kicking and screaming sometimes.........

    The UK version is not the only version of FT, and it was only recently that 12 ft/lbs was installed as the Default FT energy limit if you recall, 2006 USA was the final event at which 20 ft/lbs air rifles were permitted. This was viewed unfavourably by a great number of shooters world wide,.......maybe that slipped most people's attention..........

    But we just get on with it.........and adjust. But getting on with it and bringing everyone who still uses their pre 12 ft/lbs equipment along with us, and maintaining membership bases is a slow process.

    I'm not saying the 12 ft/lbs only view is arrogant, but it certainly is a " UK centric" view. Despite the USA National body voting for the 12 ft/lbs proposal, many US shooters were upset by that, are now not interested in World Champs any more. Efforts have started to rebuild and they have a 12 ft/lbs specialised class underway with some good results and talented shooters. Remember USA was one of the founding members of WFTF...........with a huge potential shooter base.......but struggle to field a team annually. 12 ft/lbs FT is not THEIR Field Target game, and they are not so new to the organisation. Just one example........

    Whether 12 ft/lbs or higher energy is not really the issue. 12 ft/lbs limit is here to stay as the default at World level, and those older WFTF members and us newer ones are aware and willing to come on board,......that is not an issue. The particular cultural rules of the game that have evolved that everyone is now used to need time to congeal into a uniform set. How to achieve that is now the task.

    The voting bloc majority of the UK Nations which effected the 12 ft/lbs rule no longer exists within WFTF. That abrupt change is still in the back of many RGB minds. Forcing an abrupt change in rules at this stage may well backfire into something the UK RGB's won't like. Better to manage change on a determined path than promote a popular revolution:D

    The devil is always in the details, and better the devil you know........

    GS
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2011
  8. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    Poland was 2006, it was 2007 in USA when Paul Cray won it. Anyway 12ft/lb is far more challenging than 20ft/lb do the ballistics on the trajectory, I know good F class shooters find it more difficult.

    Core rules can't be that difficult, quite simple really. 5 ket areas of interest.

    Max and min size kill zone.
    Max and min distance of targets.
    Max and min % of disciplines/compulsories.
    Acceptable clothing, jackets, gloves and slings.
    Classes i.e. juniors, seniors, spring and the prize category for each i.e. top 3, 5 or 10.
     
  9. JEV

    JEV Member

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    Sorry mate FT is 20 years from an Olympic sport. Only then with a masive increase of interest not to say support from the trade which is non existant at present. Its a Hobby until things change from the ground up.
     
  10. greyskullnz

    greyskullnz Non member

    Quite right......my mistake......so it was even more recently then.......
    No argument there, I enjoy it immensely........but the majority outside the UK have different viewpoints. I am only saying that it is a UK centric view that is the sticking point. The UK shooters are the ones pushing the changes again. It may have started in the UK but is now Global. Are the UK shooters prepared for what may end up as Core rules if the WFTF members are forced to adopt one set of rules?.....
    Uhuh, ya reckon?..........

    That is a simplistic view of the difficulties of getting agreement. That is your viewpoint (not that I do disagree) but what if I disagreed with that summation? Should your viewpoint hold more sway?

    Point I am making is that it is not purely a UK sport any more. Growth is a double edged sword.

    As for Olympics, I am opposed. Control of the sport then vests in Govt Agencies......no thanks.

    As for Italy 2011, the issue is that the Core Rules and conventions that have worked in the past seemed to have been ignored, and should be brought back into line by direct negotiation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2011
  11. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    Nobody is suggesting FT is purely a UK sport, you might have noticed that the BFTA have recently changed their rules more in line with what some of the other countries are doing so we aren't exactly trying to force you to follow our rules are we.


    I didn't realise that England, Scotland & Wales had the clout to force a change in the Core rules for all shoots after the US Worlds, did every other nation disagree :confused:

    It does seem that the "UK Nations" as you call them have upset someone :rolleyes: lets hope the Worlds competitions don't suffer due to this attitude
     
  12. CharlieM

    CharlieM Spring Time

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    I'm not sure the UK nations have perfected FT but we did form it. You can take a sport to another country adapt the rules, change the format, doesn't make it the "same" sport does it.
     
  13. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    One other thing, I would guess the UK actually has more FT participants than a good many of the other member countries combined.

    I think it is now time there is a proper set of WFTF rules to establish a full common standard for the world championships. This would not preclude individual member states doing what suits them best in their home countries, but for the puproses of world championship status there needs to be a level playing field.

    I think 12ft.lbs energy limit is fine for the worlds - it makes a good challenge.

    If the high power shooters don't like the idea - well sorry, but for way of comparison the 10m disciplines use a nominal 6ft.lbs limit and rimfire events don't allow rimfire magnum rifles so why shouldn't FT set a specified limit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011
  14. greyskullnz

    greyskullnz Non member

    I'm not defemding or justifying anything, anyone or any particular version.............

    Just saying there are different viewpoints around, and now there are many more Nations involved, that as a majority, are potentially able to vote in options the UK shooters may not like if forced to adopt a Core Set of rules.

    I've made my point, not trying to stir things up just show the other side of the coin that may be overlooked in the haste to push for progressing core rules at an International level. International rules may not end up being what the UK wants, and then it won't be the game you thought it was or wanted anyway......

    Regards to all. I've had my say

    laters.

    GS
     
  15. Scooby

    Scooby Pete Dutton

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    The only comments I've heard from UK shooters about the Core rules is the concern that they are not being enforced or followed, maybe other countries have problems with the core rules & are using the UK as an example rather than expressing their own concerns.
     
  16. NarkyMark

    NarkyMark New Member

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    Every sport has to have core rules otherwise the goal posts could start at the corner flag, 12ft/lb is the most logical for the sport as it makes it all the more challenging while meeting or exceeding the majority of member countries legal requirements, most if not all current UK FT shooters could (if they wished) get an FAC and go 20ft/lbs but where is the sport in doing that? 7.9gr @ 1050fps, 30yrd zero, 1.75" scope height, would be pretty much TKZ all the way :rolleyes:
     
  17. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    The problems with the rules are largely 2 fold...

    1) there arent, in most people's opinion, enough core rules to give a working uniformity to the events

    2) more importantly, there is no mechanism of ensuring these rules are followed... perhaps that needs to be in the rules?

    As ever, no set of rules is perfect, even ISSF rules can have a hole punched clean through them, and by the strict interpretation of them many world records and medals would have to be stripped... but as ever, with good will and everyone understanding the song sheet to sing from, it isn't neccessary, but we do have these problems now and then like any other org.

    Hopefully though, they can be fixed, with urgent attention. The EFTA has raised again concerns to the WFTF chair, so lets see what shakes loose.
     
  18. villiers

    villiers Self appointed antipimp

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    How long is the list

    Jackets and gloves i hope:eek:
     
  19. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh yes... we are trying, see the italian board for my efforts...
     
  20. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    I`ll get my coat

    Appreciated.

    If I have this right, the WFTF tell the italians Wftf rules have to be followed, Shooting jackets and gloves can be used.
    If Wftf say to the italians do as you like, the rules are whatever the italins say?

    As my jacket is part of my kit, the Italians may as well be currently telling me I cant use my scope!

    As of today, seriously thinking of cancelling the trip.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011

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