FT Freestyle lanes

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by Monty, Jan 18, 2014.

  1. Monty

    Monty Senior Moment

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    484
    Location:
    Southampton
    Club:
    Southampton Buccaneers, Basingstoke ARPC
    Something occurred to me the other day and I'm not sure if my interpretation is correct. Before answering please consider the following :)

    The question relates to FT
    The question relates exclusively to lanes designated as freestyle (i.e. NOT designated kneeling or standing)
    I'm not trying to restart the (boring) debate on new rules relating to the kneeling position, that's an entirely different discussion!
    I've read the rules and think the answer is clear, but that's just my opinion. I just need confirmation that my view is correct.

    The BFTA main shoot rules state;

    10. SHOOTING
    i. Any shooting position is allowed, but some lanes may be designated as ‘standing or ‘kneeling .

    it goes on to say;

    Freestyle: Any position that is safe and comfortable to the shooter and does not infringe the rules above.

    On a few occasions I've elected to take a sitting (freestyle) shot kneeling, usually because it affords me a better view of both targets and I don't have to spend time moving the bean bag and re-acquiring the 2nd target where the targets are at a large angle to each other. The definition of freestyle allows any position but am I compelled to adopt a 'legal' kneeling position (if I choose to shoot kneeling) or can I use an adaptation. For example could I rest the hamster directly on my knee? Obviously using a tree or post for additional support is not permitted.

    Resting the rifle on my knee or using the bean bag for extra support under my ankle or backside (especially in light of the proposed changes) would not give me a stability advantage over the traditional sitting position but would not disadvantage me to the extent that a fully compliant positional stance might especially if the target is further than 45 yards and the ground is uneven at the gate.

    Previously I've always adopted a fully compliant kneeling position from habit, but on contemplation I don't think I need to. Is this view correct? I guess the issue is that as soon as someone says 'I'll take this one kneeling' we all switch into the positional head set and forget it's a freestyle lane and it wouldn't surprise me if some shooting partners try and dock points based on the fact you said 'kneeling' and forget that 'any position' is legitimate. I think the rules are very clear, but is this the intent? I'd hate to get docked points at a shoot because I misinterpreted the rules, I need all the x's I can.

    Thanks

    Monty
     
  2. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    11,681
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    As I understand it Monty your position only has to be a 'legal' position on the designated lanes. On other lanes you can kneel how you want. But if you want I can ask at the bfta meeting next weekend.
     
  3. Monty

    Monty Senior Moment

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    484
    Location:
    Southampton
    Club:
    Southampton Buccaneers, Basingstoke ARPC
    Thanks Rob, if you could that would be grand. I think it's quite clear but I could see it becoming a bit of a debate on course if points are docked or accusations of cheating are made!
     
  4. fireblade

    fireblade Team AirArms

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    706
    Location:
    liverpool
    Club:
    Tawd Vale FTC
    think you are right on all points, shoot the freestyle position however you like No point can be 'docked'.

    but as long as it is safe and you do not use any trees/posts to lean/rest on ( Cant rest rifle on the ground either ).
     
  5. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,922
    Location:
    Doncaster
    Club:
    Pontefract, Doncaster Airgun Range
    That's interesting.. freestyle says any position is allowed that's safe and comfortable, but there's a specific definition of 'Prone' later on, together with a definition of kneeling, standing and then freestyle.

    So by that reasoning, if the lanes are 'Freestyle' then you could adopt an HFT style prone position - fist rested on the floor, rifle rested on the fist.

    Since there are no designated 'Prone' lanes, only Standing, Kneeling and Freestyle this would be within the rules?

    If this against the rules because 'Prone' is defined, then by that reasoning if you took the Freestyle lanes kneeling, you'd also have to adhere to the definition of a kneeling shot even on Freestyle lanes.
     
  6. Monty

    Monty Senior Moment

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    484
    Location:
    Southampton
    Club:
    Southampton Buccaneers, Basingstoke ARPC
    That's the point I guess Bri, if you adopt a defined position (or attempt a variation of it) within a freestyle lane does the need to comply with the definition of the positional you've elected to use take precedence over the fact the lane is freestyle? I hadn't considered the implications of prone being defined, good point.
     
  7. holly

    holly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    2,844
    Location:
    ISLE OF WIGHT
    Club:
    carisbrooke rangers
    Ask

    You might also ask Rob if when shooting open class . if you decide to take a shot kneeling as opposed to the usual sitting position . are you required to take that in the new legal sense . better to ask now than find a marshal coming up to next year and dissallowing your shot ??? HOLLY:)
     
  8. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,922
    Location:
    Doncaster
    Club:
    Pontefract, Doncaster Airgun Range
    For me the sensible thing would be if it's freestyle then the kneeling definition shouldn't matter, the other thing to consider is if someone should happen to take a photo of you shooting in an illegal kneeling position, it won't be obvious to people looking at the photo that you were actually on a freestyle lane. Then you either get rumours flying around behind your back that you cheat on kneeling lanes or someone looks at it and decides to copy your position on a kneeling lane.

    Probably best to avoid it if you can to save all the agro. Just sit down like everyone else does?
     
  9. Mr P

    Mr P Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,028
    Location:
    Sunny Ilkeston
    Club:
    Castle
    Hi Monty I have shot targets in competition as you have discribed and for the same very reasons one occasion being the worlds italy 2010 totally agree with your interpretation of the rules and I have also shot prone in ft comps as well
    Regard
    steve
     
  10. Strokebloke

    Strokebloke Mk3 Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    735
    Location:
    Northampton UK
    Club:
    SYWELL NTSC : FT : Greyhound : Kibworth
    Or, of course, stand. :D That then overcomes the height issue.
     
  11. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,959
    Location:
    Ardboe, Co.Tyrone.
    Club:
    Back Hill Ballistics
    It was 2011 in Italy Steve, I remember it well. :D

    Prone is defined to a sure those adopting it ensure forward of the elbows must be unsupported.
    In Freestyle you can take a kneeling shot with the rifle rested on the knee and whilst kneeling in a freestyle lane you may also sit on the bag. ;)
     
  12. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,577
    Location:
    Skewen
    Club:
    Avon Hawks, Tondu, Oaktree
    I am sure I was told that if you took a prone, kneeling or standing shot in a "freestyle" lane it had to be done as per Bfta rules, what ever they state at the time.

    Uf its something not covered in print, It is possible the chief marshall on the day may come to his or her own conclusion on what you would be allowed to do?

    clarification next Saturday sounds like best answer?
     
  13. Monty

    Monty Senior Moment

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    484
    Location:
    Southampton
    Club:
    Southampton Buccaneers, Basingstoke ARPC
    Thanks for the tip Conor, I'll see if I can convince the ex to come to the next round of winter league so I can try it out. Don't think it'll help my score, but it will probably make me feel better about things.
     
  14. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gents

    Was this mentioned, discussed and concluded at the meeting as suggested above?

    Many thanks.

    Col
     
  15. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    11,681
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Certainly was. See minutes here http://www.thebfta.net/bfta-documents/80-minutes-of-meetings

    However it was a bit of a tangle and I think the comp sec is looking at it further.

    The long and the short of it was...

    Freestyle lanes as they currently are defined allow you to shoot how you like. But this has knockon effects like kneeling and prone which are defined.

    So really it's up to the BFTA to work out what it wants people to do, then alter the rules to that, and so the rules need rewording. As it took me and H almost a day to thrash out the kneeling ones before they were proposed, it was deemed there wasn't enough time in the day to come up with the rules at the meeting.

    So it's being looked at.
     
  16. skires

    skires Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,139
    Many thanks Rob.
     
  17. JonathanN

    JonathanN New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Belper, Derbyshire
    “When is a Kneeler a Kneelerâ€. A kneeling shot is only a kneeling shot if taken in the position as defined by the rules for kneeling and in a designated kneeling lane, anything else would just be an alternative freestyle position, as long as it doesn t infringe on any of the rules as described in the shoot rules then there isn t a problem. There is no definition of a freestyle stance the rules only list what isn t allowed not what is, nothing states there has to be 4 points of contact with the ground when shooting freestyle so 3 points of contact with the ground should be fine.
    Just my take on the wording :rolleyes:
     
  18. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,922
    Location:
    Doncaster
    Club:
    Pontefract, Doncaster Airgun Range
    If I follow you right Jono, the kneeling definition only applies to a kneeling lane - not to a 'freestyle lane'

    When should the definition of a prone shot be used? I think the accepted standard is to apply the prone definition to a freestyle lane, in which case shouldn't the kneeling definition also be applied to a Freestyle lane? :confused:

    I think that's where the confusion lies. If you say that on Freestyle lanes you can ignore the kneeling definition since it isn't a designated kneeling lane, then you must also be saying that you can also ignore the 'Prone' definition on a freestyle lane since it isn't a designated prone lane.
     
  19. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,959
    Location:
    Ardboe, Co.Tyrone.
    Club:
    Back Hill Ballistics
    Prone is a designated freestyle position so it's defined to stop supporting the gun on the ground.
     
  20. rich

    rich Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2008
    Messages:
    1,676
    Location:
    Shebbear, N Devon
    Why don't we have four approved positions, standing, kneeling, seated and prone? Each position is clearly defined. Standers are taken standing, kneelers are taken kneeling, and freestyle shots are taken in any of the four positions, at the whim of the shooter, but no other positions are permitted.

    Radical?
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice