France joins WFTF

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by NJR 100, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    I see the french Ft shoters are wanting to Join the WFTF.

    Can someone confirm that uk shooters cant take our ft guns into france currently as we dont have the correct liecense?

    I presume it will be a number of years before france would be in line to hold the worlds, but what will a Uk shooter need to attend?
     
  2. villiers

    villiers Self appointed antipimp

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    A silly question

    You will need a E.F.P which in the UK we cant have on a sub 12ftlb:rolleyes: so you could put one of your Ev2 on ticket at 12.1ftlb and then you could have European Firearms permit and travel there to shoot.:) just then you can use that gun at a BFTA shoot.
     
  3. DaveyNZ

    DaveyNZ It's spreadsheet time!

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    So how do you deal with that for other european countries like germany? Wouldn't the solution be similar?
     
  4. wiseguy

    wiseguy Active Member

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    As far as I know the current limit in France is 10J, say 7 fpe, so you will have a legal issue when you want to attend a shoot now. For the worlds, I always was in the assumption that the organizing country would arrange the proper license/aggreement for 12fpe/16J to enter the country, like Italy last year.
    Germany also has a limit, 7.5J /5fpe , but the Germans have arranged the use of 12fpe/16J for the worlds in 2013. Our FT club arranged a special permit with the German police for attending German FT shoots trough the whole year, it takes some effort but it is obliged in order to enter Germany.
    So you only need to take care of the countries you will cross, if you go by car. Belgium and Holland are no problem at all, no limit on airguns, even if they are 500fpe....strange, but true.
    regards,
    Rob
     
  5. villiers

    villiers Self appointed antipimp

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    The Germans have a plan and a government that will help and will put a number of guns on a special permit.:)
     
  6. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    Hi Don,
    They will refuse to put a non firearm onto a European Furearms Pass in mainland UK.
    If you turn it up above 12ft/lb you need it in FAC, then if it's an FAC gun you can't use it in BFTA events or anywhere which isn't an approved FAC range! Silly but true, think RobF has the looked at this in detail.
     
  7. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    The entry requirement into the WFTF is to have a 12ft/lb discipline and to use that power when hosting a worlds event!
     
  8. TOOL

    TOOL Independent FT Pumper

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    Waste of time

    So this is only IMO and not to piss on everyones strawberry's .............................but...................why are countries potentially being aloud to join the federation when it makes it difficult for other countries to gain access to compete due to the proposed countries own fire arms laws regarding transportation ?

    Shouldn't this be a criteria of acceptance to the federation ? I think so !

    I believe this is one of the semi down falls with NZ, fire arms laws requiring additional training ? or something i read some time ago ?

    Beautiful country, trip of a life time etc and another part of the big FT adventure ..................... But if i'm going to drag the Haggis Cannon all the way to the other side of the world i want the least amount of hassle as possible ? and this goes for all countries ( the more the merrier for me ) but at least let's engage some common sense & make theses countries easy to enter at least.

    And before all the down-under-brigade jump on this post it's not a pop at NZ, the thread is regarding France & their laws, i was just talking the big picture regarding hosting criteria.

    I'm probably wrong again but hey ho !

    Gilly is my Hero !
     
  9. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    I`m with Tool, or more to the point in the next shed.

    Worlds has fast become my favourite shoot of the year.

    I want to go to them all, but like tool says i just want to get off the plane and head to base camp.

    I was under the impression taking a gun to or through france from uk was not an option, hence my post.

    If it is the case, i will ask my wftf rep not to accept france (or any other country) to wftf if Uk shooters cant attend shoots there?
     
  10. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    I personally believe there should be a guarantee for anyone wishing to host the worlds that they can accept all without extra work from visitors but that this should not be a barrier to joining the federation, only to hosting. There are already countries which want efps which have hosted worlds or open events which EFTA shooters have attended.
    I think it would be good to have them on board as perhaps the legislation could be eased with them included as opposed to it being the same if they weren't. I'm not sure the sole purpose of joining is to host, more to be a part of the sport at the highest level and gain recognition for it within the country itself. Worthy of support in my mind
     
  11. neilL

    neilL New Member

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    7.5j

    Just curious to know what FT is like in countries where the local limit is 7.5J or so? Must be an awful lot of dialling between 7m and 50m (8yd-55yd)? and large wind allowance?

    Maybe the UK could have a FTi class using similar kit which might be educational :)

    Cheers
    Neil
     
  12. villiers

    villiers Self appointed antipimp

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    I also think your range finding would have to be pretty good:eek:
     
  13. dutoitk

    dutoitk Member

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    We flew with Air France from South Africa via Paris to Norway. As Far as I know we had no problems with the transport of the rifles. Then again the rifles were booked straight through. Only thing was that those with rifles on there names could not get boarding passes straight through to Oslo and had to get the second pass at Paris airport.

    Point to note: Your ticket indicates that you have a rifle, so when asked if there is ammo in the case, reply no.:D
     
  14. mikewills8904

    mikewills8904 walthers last the course

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    Europeans fire arm pass

    I am not sure but a europeans fire arms pass is not the same as a uk firearms license
    I recently renewed my face and enquired about a space for a .177 airgun for travel abroad .and was told a uk fac will not let u take the guns abroad so you would need a separate Europeans fire arm pass ,
    I asked about the implications of putting a gun on a european pass and would it be classed as a firearm in the uk ,and was told .this came firearms admin hq in bridgend
     
  15. greyskullnz

    greyskullnz Non member

    Realise that this thread is about France.........

    The difference in NZ is that it is the person, not the rifle that is the issue, and the person is Licensed. Visitors obtain a visitors license, and can bring whatever they like with them.....barring fully auto military weapons.

    The up side for us is that our own Lic regimen now allows us to travel to other Countries and obtain relevant paperwork much easier. We could travel through and to France ourselves under our system.

    It is only the UK that could not attend due to your own laws and regulations. Majority of the other members would be in a similar position to us, in that they could travel to France, Germany and other places with power limits requiring permits or licenses once paper work is done. EFP or non European documents, its still possible, but just not for UK shooters.

    Its a UK problem, not a "rest oif the world" problem.

    Hosting is still a voluntary requirement I believe not mandatory. If The problem still exists when France has its turn, lets hope they can win an exemption for the event, or defer to the next on the list, which I am sure would be a shame and disappointment for them. There would be a few years between now and then, hopefully some alignment between your two legal systems in this regard could be negotiated if heads can get together.........and pressure applied.
     
  16. Dave Ramshead

    Dave Ramshead England HFT Team squatter

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    What a cracking way for the rest of the FT shooting world to ensure a non Brit win's the World FT Title. ;)
     
  17. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    Still a fundamental requirement of the WFTF for hosts to use 12ft/lb format for the competition though. What would be the point affiliating without the facility or permission of the government in a particular country, to use that format/power.
    Why would they be disappointed on not being able to host it if they did not have the knowledge and experience of setting up challenging courses for 12ft/lb when they have been using a totally different format!
     
  18. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Adam its not a uk problem it's a problem for those hosting and the wftf. There should be a mandatary entry system for all hosts as well as basic things like insurance and medical support. If you can offer that no problem. I've found a few websites that can organise shooting holidays in Nz which state insurance and organisation for the visitor for the visitors firearms license so there should be no problem there for nz to sort the same. Obviously organisers should not want sleepiness nights from being found liable is there was a problem. Contrary to the popular conception that insurance can't be obtained in Nz for instance this document explains about liability and advises it. http://www.sportnz.org.nz/Documents/faq/Full_Legal_Liability_Document.pdf

    With 30 or so years before hosting I'm sure there is enough time to sort the paperwork out like Hungary did. We should remember that although entry may be more difficult in some countries, once approved, gun ownership can be more open and thus ft is able to be shot with ease.

    Countries however need to be very clear about what they are undertaking and their visitor expectations. Beyond that and the hosting issues I don't see why a country can't join as I don't see hosting as the sole reason for joining. Indeed for some countries we are looking at decades before they may be able to and the situation could be different for all by then. We have already lost a country due to scoped shooting being effectively outlawed for everyone inside it's borders.
     
  19. greyskullnz

    greyskullnz Non member

    "Contrary to the popular conception that insurance can't be obtained in Nz for instance this document explains about liability and advises it."

    Rob it is for sporting events such as mountain biking and triathlons. Shooting is on the more than average risk list, which insurers here will not touch. Also the HSE act specifically prohibits insurers from covering breaches of that Act.

    I have worked in the area of HSE and believe me the NZ Worlds entry forms will include indemnity waivers, mandatory travel insurance requirements for hazardous activities, we will have a robust risk management plan, and range officers controlling the operation will be experienced....... qualified range officers with many years experience in various shooting disciplines.

    The document you linked is familiar to me, as are others on the SPARC website.

    The NZ Police manage and control who attends here or not, via the visitors permit/Lic system. We have been informed by that responsible branch that PCP air rifles can attend even without holding a relevant Lic in your country, as long as certain conditions are met.

    1) clean criminal record
    2) bona fide member of a shooting organisation
    3) has attended/completed a firearms safety course. (it can be a rudimentary one, not requiring actually obtaining a License for any person/rifle) Certificate copy will be required in the application.

    Application online direct to NZ Police via internet 1 year in advance is available, for the visitors Lic, I recommend anyone in doubt of their criminal background get onto it early as it would be an issue for a visa to visit with rifle or without regardless. There will be no exceptions for anyone, this will be the system to attend, and should be no problem if a "fit and proper person" as our legislation requires.

    Anyone here consider themselves or any others not "fit or proper"......I can think of a few already.:D

    cheers
     
  20. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    Can you find out what "clean" entales.

    ie, I take it the odd speeding fine dont count.
     

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