Discussion in 'UKAHFT Official Forum' started by Scooby, Sep 2, 2010.
I'm with the others on this Rob, i don't think its a good thing at all.
lol... i dont care
i still think it's a wise idea to be RFD if working on several people's guns is a regular occurance...
Yeah but you shoot FT and they are all a bit strange
I can see what your trying to say Rob but! if you not fixing/ working on a firearm why have an RFD if your not breaking the law.
Just because it covers you in the event of something going awry...
Anyway, it's not me that's mad Pete, it's the rest of the world
Robs proposition does raise some interesting points.
I work on airguns (mainly springers) for club members purely on an amateur basis. Now as anyone who has worked on springers will know theoretically you can easily have in your possession a rifle that is over power because the spring has yet to be shortened to a suitable length. If other circumstances conspired against you (for what ever reason) your premises could be searched and the over power springer taken for testing (you haven't had time to sort it).
Without an RFD your goose is starting to cook.
It's also not unknown for someone to ask you to have a look at a gun for them and you find it's slightly hot. It's you that holds the gun.
No I don't think you should have to have an RFD to work on airguns in an unofficial capacity but you should be careful.
Good post Ray, fair points raised too. Also you could, say, buy a springer off a club mate, they say "yeah, it's 11.2" and let's say the scenario that you mentioned happened before you could test it, and it wasn't, maybe because their chrono or testing method was slightly out, then hmm...
as you say, we need to be careful, very careful
The above statement is incorrect.
I've since found out that air pistols (not air cartridge systems) are specifically excluded from Section5.
(aba)any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, F5. . . a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus;]
I apologise for incorrect info originally posted.
ps. anyone got a good excuse for possession of a Section1 Pistol
Hi Friends,Im Wayne from Malta.An interesting topic to talk on.I fully agree that their is a risk of some guys tampering with power adjusters but thats not make sense for the competitive airguner ,I have both Whalter and steyr lg110 in alutec and in our climate it is nearly impossible to shoot all year round with the same power setting ,I like my rifles to be tuned between 750-770 ft/ps that is under 12ft/lbs and in summer here when it touches 35 degree -40degree temperature the rifles drop the power to a max of 730 on their own and when winter starts to kick in with the summer setting the velocity go over the limit and I have to retune down to 750-770 .I test on chrono very often when we are switchig from summer to winter due that the difference is huge in temperature.When I be travelling with the gun its safer for us to have an adjuster coz when I had a chat with Whalter engineer he stated to be safe ,to drop the power before leaving country and when you arrive to your destination leave the rifle at the zero range for at least 1 hr to get the country temperature and chrono your power back .It`s as fair as it can be if everyone is responsible for his acts and the other thing its not wise to touch power unneccasary couse if my rifles get out of that power bracket you will loose you trjectory and you would be getting to mhuc speed and no targets dropped coz i think every competitor does his scope tracejtory with his sub 12 power settings.
Pls correct me if im wrong or out of subject,I write here to talk and learn from all of you guys and thanks for your shared information ,we care a lot for our hobby becouse it`s fun and very interesting,
I can see us all having to have a licence soon the way things are going.
Check back in another 9 years and see where we are then
I miss Raygun.
I don’t think it’s going to be that long Brian, I’ve heard that the paperwork is in or already printed??
That sounds like BS to me. Of course I could be wrong, but seeing as no-one else has heard of it, there's been no law passed and the HO and Police are quite busy as it is (see the licensing delays data) then introducing a licensing scheme for airguns without anyone knowing would seem quite insane. Of course it's not beyond the powers that be to pull such stunts. but considering how long the semi auto thing carried on for and ended up with what I would call a fudge then it would appear that licensing isn't that imminent or the opportunity would have been seized (there already has been one change to the Act this year).
When I came back to airguns 15+ years ago the prediction from some was 5 years before we were into licensing. You can never say never but this thread shows that it is a subject that has come and gone before, just like the lead ban.
Robf. Hi we all thought that in Scotland my friend the police didn't want to know about licensing airguns they had enough work with firearms and shot guns etc.
The police where ignored basc and other shooting bodies were ignored.
It came down to politicians who we all trust lol.
Poll tax all over again we got it first to test the water then you guy's will get it.
Especially if accident cases with airguns gets in the news or over powered air rifles etc.
The police in Scotland are tightening up the laws a bit as well. The form is getting very much towards FAC standard, wheras when it first came out it was a wee bit more relaxed. I am hearing of many more applicants getting police visits before issuing AWL even though they are folk of good standing in the community.
The saddest bit is that those prescribed with having depression at some point are highly unlikely to get an AWL. I'm not in the position to understand the full nature of this, for instance if a person has told a doctor that they have considered harming themselves or others due to this illness, then perhaps a viable reason for declining an AWL or if its a more blanket approach and dependant on your doctors opinion. With the average age of competition shooters in Scotland being probably in the 40's, with many through divorces, and bad times, there is no doubt many that have been troubled and seen their doctors about it and have their application declined.
Thats the sad bit, for someone with depression, air rifle shooting is like a medication. A reason to get out, get into the country side and socialise with friends.
End of the day, the Police decision makers neck is on the line re approval and with the current political climate towards air rifles etc via the media the feeling is they would like to clean the streets of our hobby if they could get away with it.
Enjoy your freedoms the rest of GB, i hope that licensing doesn't come your way.
Interesting thread, my view and please note that this is only my view(s) I may be wrong.
1st, I don't see licensing heading to England soon, maybe when other more pressing issues have been addressed it will. I can't see that licensing will effect me too greatly, although how it is implemented and depending on any changes made to the current legislation I could be wrong.
2nd, If a air rifle has an external adjustment that can take it WELL above 12ftlbs, I would ask why? If the owners intention is to stay within the law there is no excuse I could see as reasonable. If that same adjuster can lift the air rifle just over the legal limit then it should be reasonably easy to tweak it so that it falls within the legal limit when fully wound up, if the owner doesn't know how or have the tools to do it, then it shouldn't cost too much to get someone else to fix it.
3rd, I doubt the police will ever cause me personally a problem, because I don't do anything that would bring the fact that I have air rifles to their attention. But if for some reason they did come knocking at my door, they are very welcome to check every rifle in my possession ( I have nearly as many Mick Fern ). As the owner I am confident that none would be over the limit. My confidence comes from spending a lot of time getting them to shoot up to a figure of 11.5 ftlbs on full chat.
4th, Sorry Rob I have to disagree with your view. Anyone legally entitled to own an air rifle can clean, adjust, repair and alter an air rifle, providing it does not contravene the legislation in place (so as it remains an air rifle and not a firearm). I get a lot of enjoyment from making adjustments or making small parts for myself. I see no need to hold a RFD as I am not doing any of those things with a firearm and I am not a dealer, I might help a mate out if there was a really desperate need, even then I would rather point them to a local RFD that does a great job at reasonable and fair prices.
5th, If the manufacturers of air rifles actually gave a toss about UK customers, it shouldn't take to much effort (or cost) to set the manufacture of the rifle up well and then fit an AT knowing that 90% odd of users would be happy that their rifle was close up to the limit but couldn't drift over the limit without serious intention to do so.
As I said at the start, these are just my views and are based on my own experience and knowledge, both of which are limited compared to many others on this forum.
Sorry took that a bit of topic.
Agree with you whatbarndoor on your points.
The thing i disagree a little on is the AT's. Think the fine tune adjusters should be AT free to allow tuning of power, especially to bring it under.
On the flip side my mate bought a HFT 500 brand new and this was sitting at 10.3 ft/lbs. As a competition shooter he wants this about 11.5 ft/lbs. AT's on, now sent back to air arms. Thats £1100 spent on a new rifle to have it missing for a week or 2 to get fixed. Not good times. If the fine tune adjusters were available, he may have been able to bring it up to 11+ ft/lb and been happy enough not to send it back.
Understand we do have some eejits that will chance there arm on power, be it for personal want to see what it will do, or for competitive advantage, but i reckon the vast majority of folk are comfortable in the knowledge that their rifles are legit and set to their liking. But to have that little bit of adjustment to set it up/down 30 fps isnt a major deal breaker especially if there is a chance with mass manufacturing that the power can be set too low or worse, come to you, too high from a manufacturer.
Barn door just a response to your point 3 bullet point. Myself has never been in trouble with the police never advertise that I own a rifle the same has pretty much all the Scottish shooters.
Going about are daily lives then bang license comes in you have to give the police details about what you use your rifles for on application.
In my case for competition only I could be wrong but if your a Hunter you give details of permission etc.
Also the police can visit you anytime to check things.
Also has John said sad thing poeple who may have had a sad part in there life and had depression on there medical records have been refused to have a air rifle license which they may have been shooting for twenty odd years.
Also if some did something stupid has a teenager and now in there 40s can go against you.
Like I said in earlier post it doesn't matter that the police do not want it or not comes down to politicians who don't care and don't have a clue.
Like John said I hope licensing does not come to yourselves.
Hi Johnbam and plinker,
Johnbam, Yes I agree that a fine adjustment is desirable, but if the likes of Air Arms actually gave a little bit more thought to the British market they could easily enough make the rifle so that it was within legal limits but allowing for variations in material and tolerance still shoot at a nominal (say) 11.4 ft lbs and have a means to adjust very slightly but not beyond the legal limits (by the owner). If an air rifle is then altered in such a way that it is clearly modified to shoot above the legal limit, the owner has no excuse. At the moment the variation as your friend has discovered means that a lot of air rifles are delivered way below a desirable and legal power level, it's a shame the UK market is so small.
Plinker I don't know when licensing will hit England, Wales etc but I do expect it will at some point, I wouldn't personally be bothered by that myself but I can see how it might affect some other shooters as you have pointed out. The real irony is that it won't effect the very people that it is designed to stop from owning an air rifle. I could tell the police now or they can visit me now or at any time, as the rifles I own are all legal it's only a minor inconvenience to me for the time it takes, I imagine the only people who would be worried are those that know their stuff is on the hot side, in which case licensing could said to be working.
Do you know personally of anyone that has applied for a licence and had the application turned down due to previous health conditions? There would be a strong legal case if that person could use medical records to show that he or she had suffered a mental illness at some point but has now recovered, especially if no current medical opinion showed otherwise.