Discussion in 'UKAHFT Official Forum' started by Scooby, Sep 2, 2010.
i have it on my AR5s
but you have to get your guns seized for testing first.
and how many people do you know that have randomly had their door kicked in for no good reason and their guns seized?
I bet the bloke who dropped his rifle off 15 minutes before the Police arrived is a bit annoyed.
Yes, you guessed it. That one also tested over power after "adjustment".
so is he being prosecuted as well?
No, he wasn't in possession of the rifle.
It's the "holder" not the owner that the law applies to.
I very much agree with the sentiment of RobF's posts. I shoot an anti tamper AAS400 and during the last GP season the fps varied by nearly 20fps from a normal 777 to 795! As the gun has not been touched (tuned) I was a littled startled to get such a large degree of change, who knows what it might have gone upto if I had left it in the sun for a couple of hours before crono-ing it. Does adjustment by the sun count? I seriously doubt it, but if I were to strip off the AT it could be modified and who would know?
I think there is very little likelihood of me getting stopped going to my club or a shoot and even less chance of my gun being tested, if it is then it will be about 777 unless someone applies a blowtorch to the aircylinder which will almost certainly take it over the 12flbs limit.
I would think the only people who might have cause for concern are the people who have had the anti tamper measures removed from a gun, as that could be argued as intent.
ipurchaced a new ft gun test at 785 with jsb s 8,4 then to my after atin of pellet it stated running 870 850 790 850 it went back to for repair no exter adjuster or hammer adjuster one week old how i stand
I reckon mate you would be ok, the guy who sold it to you however would or could be accused of selling an FAC gun to a non FAC holder and could lose his own licence to trade!
There is a lot of speculation about this job, it would appear that the only information about the case seems to has come from the defendant so all you have is his version of the events and he has been found guilty on 3 separate accounts. I heard today that Steve gave evidence but that was basically to confirm that the guns were not manufactured using F.A.C. parts.
Anyone who has had dealings with Crown Court will know that things don t move fast the case started on Tuesday and was done and dusted on Wednesday. Doesn t sound like there was much expert evidence a court would normally allow a day for experts. I have seen appeals for speeding that have lasted longer.
After he is sentenced in October you might find out the full facts. Just because he has been to Crown doesn t automatically make the result case law. Either he elected Crown or the Magistrate carrying out the pretrial review felt that the lower Court didn't have sufficient powers to deal with it.
So at this stage I won t be loosing any sleep over it.
Yes there is as it is on both my AR5 and AR5s. There is a 'locking' grub screw that needs to be taken out first and most people have a 'notch' in the stock that can allow access to them.
It's worth pointing out that if this method of testing (allowing "adjustment") is accepted then there could be an awful lot of Pistols that may now be classed as Section 5.
That carries a mandatory 5 year sentence.
Perhaps selling my pcp gear and reverting to springer was not a bad idea. To be honest although i can understand to a point, the fuss over AT, the main reason i sold up was because i couldnt alter the power. Pointless having a top notch FT rifle if i cant even adjust the power and have to return an RFD to do it for me. I have been thinking about an EV2 , or at least an FT rig, best wait and see i think.
I have a S400 which was originally supplied with anti tamper fitted, this was my first new pcp in the first winter I had the gun it was doing 760 fps with jsb exacts 8.4 grain. Recently comments from people at the club said that sounds to be hitting hard so put gun over chrono and in the sweet spot was doing between 795fps and 805 fps (12.1 ft lbs) so had anti tamper removed so I could lower power to around 11.5 ft lbs and be legal and ethical. It now seems I am in the wrong presume sealing the outer capscrew so it cannot be removed to access the adjusting screw will suffice.
It seems that if adjustment is easily available on the rifle, i.e. a knob on the side of the rifle that allows power adjustment just by turning the knob, then this is allowed to be adjusted during testing.
It seems that there is much more to this case than meet the eye.
Here is a quote from a member over on BBS:
OK, at this point in time this is hearsay, however, lets just consider the implications if it is true.
So a report is recieved of an unlicensed individual modifying pcp's to allow a considerable power increase for non-FAC holders - the police respond and seize guns. In the light of the reason for the seizure would it not be appropriate to see exactly what the guns in his possession were capable of achieving?
Now lets be clear here neither the police or FSS are stupid, they realise that there are a minority of idiots who will flaunt the law by making field adjustments to alter power for use and regaining a veneer of legality by winding it back.
CPS aren't stupid either, they have had enough enough problems in the past with cases falling down on bad evidence so if they thought the adjustment was warranted, it would suggest that there is more to this than just the random persecution of an otherwise law abiding individual.
One other question if an individual was re-activating old type de-acts or converting blank firers to take live, would we be as concerned as for an indiviual who may have been creating unlicensed S1's for non-FAC holders?
this is how my liecensing officer told me in your case dont worry,he said its like a car can do 100mph but you no you can only do 70mph on a motorway,all new guns will hav a anti tamper or can not adjust past legal,but all guns which have been made before the date of this new law which hasnt gone through court yet,is its down to the owner to make sure its under legal power and does not have a power slide ie goes from 12 to 24 in a single push,steyr's like mine hav a locking allen on the side just make sure this is tight and place the trigger guard back over it once the power is set,ps making sure u aint got a hole in trigger guard to get the allen into this allen key if u hav block it off etc,the adjuster then cant be turned etc without taking trigger guard off all so you can cover the adjuster
Am no lawyer, but if the chap is guilty on "all 3 counts" ...does it make it automatically ILLEGAL to own & possess a Steyr FT LG110 with external velocity adjustors (ie: the non FAC kosher rifles???)
Also, where is is this new law/ruling published so we can all read it ???
So a court case decides the new law ??? I though Parliament has to OK/Greenlight the court ruling, and then they (the powers that may be) make amendments to the already existing GUN laws, which become ENFORCEABLE at a certain date in the future.
Do any of you know what is the actual position, where we NON FAC STEYR FT owners stand ?... with regards to owning & possessing NON FAC guns with a external power adjustor
What new law would that be Chris?
Since when has it been any kind of offence to work on any manufacturers guns ?
If that was the case I can think of quite a few people in trouble, including myself. If he was servicing/repairing Ripley's he had the experience as he worked for them for 15 years until they finished him.
If Lee is guilty of possession of Section 1 rifles because they are fitted with adjusters are then not Ripley and others guilty of supplying Section 1 rifles under the same reasoning because they supply them with adjusters?
If you were a defendant and wanted to prove a point on the power the rifles were set at when seized how could you possibly do this if the evidence had been altered?
Would the same apply when using different types of pellets.
i.e. different makes / types of pellets do require the power to be adjusted / lowerd so the rifle is not over the 12 foot pounds limit
If the forensic boys can adjust the power up to maximum, can they also use different pellets also in the effort to make the rifle go over the limit. I am not sure which way it works but say I am using a heavy pellet and have the power adjusted so that it produces less than the full 12 foot pounds (i.e. acceptable) could they use the lightest pellet available and produce more than the 12 foot pounds, would that be an offence
John Waterfield (Styer FT110 owner)