EFTA Team places...

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by RobF, Sep 22, 2014.

  1. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,179
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Simon Ayers : Confirmed
    John Costello: Confirmed
    Andrew Gillott : Confirmed
    Andy Calpin : Confirmed
    Ian Taylor : Confirmed
    Neil Hague : Confirmed
    Justin Wood : Confirmed
    Scott Robinson : Confirmed

    Reserves : TBC

    Nick Murphy
    Mark Stenton
    Ian Stoddart

    etc

    Springer Team TBC

    Those wanting places so far (in no particular order)

    Dan Eley (PCP)
    Helen England (PCP/springer)
    Rob Farnworth (PCP/springer)
    Matt Hirst (PCP/springer)
    Craig McDonald (PCP)
    Rudi Gerlach (springer)
    Neil Thornycroft (springer)
    Neil Daniels (PCP)
    Brian Samson (springer)
    Shaun Shore (PCP)
    Paula Schofield (PCP)
    Dave Schofield (PCP)
     
  2. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,153
    Location:
    Doncaster
    Club:
    Pontefract, Doncaster Airgun Range
    Are there any places for a springer team Rob?

    (I'm guessing Nick shot a PCP for the Euro's on that score!)
     
  3. Woody

    Woody The Chaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    Aldwick
    Club:
    Bisley, Member of the Ostler Air stripper club of GB!
    Very excited! :)
     
  4. EELS

    EELS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Kent
    Club:
    Kent Woodsmen FTC
    Rob: Looks like an awesome team.....today.

    Now I know there was a long running thread before on this but: Where is the logic in picking a team over one given weekend for an event 1YEAR away!!??

    We've got at least a dozen GP's, Showdowns, Masters, Inters, BFTA Champ shoots to go before then & whilst I'm sure most of the guys listed will still be there or there abouts it's a bit demotivating for everyone else (me included) to know that the chance of being in the team is already gone before the season even starts because we couldn't get to Weston Park the previous September.

    Picking the team at the Inters/BFTA Champs weekend for Germany two years ago had it's critics but at least that was held in the same year! There's got to be another way (I gave my proposal in the long running thread on the subject last year). This route just smacks of easy convenience for EFTA admin.

    Ps. You'll probably tell me that this was all discussed, voted on an decided at 'X' meeting ages ago; if so please could you let me know when, so as I can 'speak' to my rep about messaging that little one out ;)
     
  5. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,179
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    I'm assuming 8 as per germany.

    But hot off the press is that Lithuania have asked to WFTF if they can run a seperate course for springers which would be varied each day. This allowing 300 on the main and 100 springers on the other.
    Downside is that if you want to shoot amongst the pcps you can't be in springer comp. Plus side is the amount of bodies in the comp.

    I'll be circulating it to the current management committee for thoughts. But I can guess the outcome.
     
  6. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    3,153
    Location:
    Doncaster
    Club:
    Pontefract, Doncaster Airgun Range
    Isn't it customary to leave decisions of this magnitude until a month before the event?

    I'm not sure how I feel about that to be honest, obviously it's quite a big departure from the WFTF Comprehensive Rules (why bother having any in the first place?) and it feels like Springers are being demoted to a side shoot.

    My concern is that when they say 'varied' each day, that it won't be varied enough to make it interesting.
    Shooting practically the same course each day for 3 days is going to be tedious.
     
  7. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,179
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Sorry Dan,missed this earlier.

    You know I wouldn't just make it up ;)

    The logic was purely that was what was decided by the EFTA Committee because although the event may be 1 year away, it could only be 3.5 months away if it's held Jan 1st (unlikely, but as yet we've not been able to persuade the WFTF to bring date announcements forward, so sometime next year is as good as it gets), and given the way Germany went, we need to be able to say yes to and who is definitely going, up front, for when ever booking in opens. If it opens say March, we're stuffed and in the same boat as we were for Germany. That way we can say yes to any additional places we may get, because we already know who's in the team, and who wants to go as well.

    The inters/champs was a quick fix. The euro's gives us a decent lead time, so at least we're ready before the winter comes in, everyone disappears down their bolt holes, and we don't get caught out with pants around ankles saying "oh but we haven't picked our team yet" when booking in opens before WL's have finished.

    The meeting was held at the last GP in 2012, and the announcement made on the BFTA forum, and also via the reps. Barry would be your rep. In terms of communication with me, both EFTA and BFTA, i'd say he's one of the better ones.

    http://www.thebfta.net/forum/index.php/topic,508.0.html

    Admin convenience I can assure you it aint.
     
  8. EELS

    EELS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Kent
    Club:
    Kent Woodsmen FTC
    Rob, thanks for coming back.

    I never thought you'd just made it up mate; I know you've got better things to do with your time! :D

    I appreciate the pragmatic argument here & agree that the WFTF need to fix a window earlier - but it's always been held in July/August/Sept so we know if we go off of the Europeans we're going to be some time ahead.

    The Worlds is primarily an individual event. Would it not be better to choose a team from those who are committed to going already rather than have people go just because they're in the team?
    Shooters could register their availability to shoot for EFTA & earn 'qualification points' at certain shoots throughout the year (for winning / placing) and then EFTA could pick the top 8 best performing PCP shooters who have already shown they are committed to going. This system could run continuously, so at any time EFTA could say "there's a comp on & this is our best X no. of shooters".

    I wasn't aware that the Euro's was going to be the one shoot where you could register your desire in terms of wanting to represent your country & even if I had have done I wouldn't have gone this year anyway - I'm not going to bleat on about why, we've all got lives that eb & flow :lev - suffice to say I'm gutted that through missing one shoot, I've got no chance of getting into the team for 2015 & that I would implore the EFTA big-wigs to get round a table and sort a proper system out cos this one is crap. Either that or I'll have to start looking into my family tree to see if I can shoot for Uzbekistan or something!
     
  9. SDplinker

    SDplinker Pellet testing...yawn

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    381
    Location:
    Atascadero, CA, USA
    Club:
    CASA - California Airgun Shooters Association
    So did he shoot a PCP?? :)
     
  10. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,179
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    The worlds is not a primarily individual event though. It's an event. It might have been that in the dark ages before the sidewheel was discovered, and it was shot over beer guts and haybales. It's now got over 30 countries, not 3, and they want to plump for the team just like 4 home counties and the USA did, and also send their best shots for the title. Opinions may differ as to what it should be, but that is what it isn't, an individual event, open to all. We cannot fit 550 (which is how many wanted to go to Germany) in the event.

    The event maybe July/August/Sept, but booking in normally opens a lot earlier (feb/march) And for that, we need to know who is going, so we can say they can go, so they can book flights/hotels and time off work. In other words, we need to be ready probably in March, and people need that time to booked off work by then, then we'd say you're not going, places are limited. Ooops.
    In the event of limited places to 8 or 16, the only people going will be the teams. We wont know who that is until we do selection, and come March it's too late to run it.

    Now if we'd had some suggestion, worked out, that suits not only the proposer, but also answers those that say "oh but i can't make 10 shoots in a year", and everything else then we would of considered it. But I bet you a £ we'd have someone come up two years later and say "why cant i be in the team and who knew about what we have now anyway?" :D

    If there's a better system, work it out, send it to me, and I'll put it around and see who likes it. There's no problem with that. Never has been.

    We have this every time there's a popular worlds. And to date, despite the amassed IQ of the internet, there's not been one solution that keeps everyone happy. Even when it's hosted far away and barely anyone can afford the time off or money to go, people weren't happy, because they couldn't go for another reason apart from selection. And they weren't happy afterwards, because they'd missed out on something they wouldn't have been happy attending either.

    What would be a nice start is if someone popped over to the EFTA forum, made a new thread and said "i'd like a spare place if there's one going, other's please leave their name"... oh and i've thought of a way we can choose them just in case there's not enough places ;) That would be handy because I'd like to go as well. Unless I fix the springer issue, that will be how I'm going, as a spare.
     
  11. EELS

    EELS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Kent
    Club:
    Kent Woodsmen FTC
    Rob,

    If you can enter as an individual - which you can - & there is A world champion at the end of it - which there is; then it's primarily an individual event. I appreciate this may not always be the case - with us having to apply within our RGB quota before a 'clearing' - but at the moment it is.

    Secondly, you've got to start a system somewhere mate but once it's up an d running it'll be a rolling marker, that can carry back as far you you want to go. BTW I was thinking of say 8 shoots, with your qualifying points from your best 5 to count. if someone can't make 5 qualifying shoots a year I suggest they're not that interested anyway. I'm happy to note down my thoughts and provide these via the proper channels - though what appetite there is for change is yet to be seen...:(

    Bottom line is you can't tell me that a meeting was held where the question was asked "how can we ensure we select the best team, with the best chance of winning X comp?" & the best we can do was "I know let's pick the top 8 English shooters from one shoot held 11 months beforehand" No, not having it.

    Anyway, clearly that boat has sailed (for this year at least) and unless this thread fills up with 200 people agreeing with me (never happened yet LOL) then I guess I'm stuck. But forums are there for people with a shared interest to voice their opinions and those are mine.
    Peace Out:lev
     
  12. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,179
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    He did... ;)
     
  13. scruff

    scruff Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    298
    Location:
    bewdley
    Club:
    purley chase
    why not

    just a thought but why not pick a team based on the earlier years performance...not just on one event...
    for example it could be based on say 5 gp results...plus you could allow for a wild card entry based on form:)
     
  14. kilty

    kilty Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2008
    Messages:
    878
    Location:
    Essex
    Club:
    SPRINGFIELD ARC
    Nick did shoot his pcp at the weekend.
     
  15. saddler

    saddler Phil Gee

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    Pelsall, West Mids
    Club:
    Millride
    I thought this topic had already been done and dusted. Obviously no system will suit everyone, but with the need to give people plenty of notice that they are in the team the current plan seems fair enough.
    And although there is often talk of 300-400 shooters, and limits to this and that, how many who really want to go to the worlds get prevented from going?
     
  16. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,179
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    I can tell you, and have.

    The meeting was held at the last GP, Far Coley 2012. The question was "How do we select the best team, now Germany have announced booking in so early and we're at the last GP, and how do we do it in the future". The answer was Champs/Inters for 2013, for 2013 and Euros for ever after that until someone proposes something else.

    It was (from memory) proposed by Ian Taylor, and seconded by Sefta (apologies if that's incorrect, I can confirm when I access the emails if you like).

    That's one line.

    The bottom line is, we don't know how many places are available. I need to know who is interested. And any suggestions will be greatfuly received. But it doesn't matter if there's 200 replies saying Hallelujah, if no-one transfers from an internet forum to their rep's inbox, and cc's me in on it, it's just 200 replies saying Hallelujah on an internet forum. Now this could be as per all the other noises on the net, which translate to about 1 in 100 ideas actually being mentioned at committee, or it could not.

    Firstly, in any event, I need to know who wants to go. I had one person before Saturday. Two by the end of Saturday, Sunday while I was shooting I had 3. I spoke to those I could find who hadn't bomb burst after the trophies, and texted those that had.

    As for your first point, no you can't always enter as an individual. In Germany you couldn't. You could shoot as one, we handled all the entries. And in Italy and Hungary we did all the applications to make it easier for both the shooters and the organisers. Only in NZ were we told not to apply, to which end I couldn't actually find out who was going and who was going to be in the team! (or not as it turned out).

    What you're suggesting sounds like using grading. Which I'd be inclined to look at, but I think that has room for perversion, which whilst I'm not suggesting it does happen, it has the room to happen, and if someone did, then someone else would be upset.

    So your boat hasn't sailed, pick up the ship to shore, send them a rough idea of your course, and try to resist drinking your own urine just for one minute, as although you may feel like it's the perfect storm and it's time to down go down with the ship, if you check your current depth off keel, you're in 3ft of water 20yds off shore. Just turn around. You just dozed off after lunch and woke up looking away from land.
     
  17. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,179
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Because it wasn't proposed. I think the thinking was that if it was a 3 day event competition, then you wanted those that could perform on a 2 day event, not average well over 5-6-7... dunno.
     
  18. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,179
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Come on Phil, this is FT... :D

    To date, since I've been involved and handling it. No-one. There have been those that wanted to go, but then decided not to because for other reasons, but we were offered places in Germany that we couldn't fill. Italy took everyone, even those at last minute. I was aghast to find they'd turned their own countrymen down for visitors, can't ask for more than that.
     
  19. IAN TAYLOR

    IAN TAYLOR Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    at home
    Club:
    PONTEFRACT
    worlds

    Hi Rob, We set off for home quicker than a whippet out of the traps, Please put me as confirmed to take my place for the 2015 FT worlds.
    Ian Taylor.
     
  20. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2010
    Messages:
    12,179
    Location:
    Poole, Dorset
    Club:
    Parkstone Gun Club, South Dorset FTC, Southampton Buccaneers
    Done, thanks Ian :)
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice