disciplin rules

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by Ratinator, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. Ratinator

    Ratinator Well-Known Member

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    Bfta site is down
    So could some one tell me the rule's on kneeler's.
    Is it ok to have Your hamster resting against your wrist?
    Is it ok to sit on your bag so it inflates up under you backside?
    This must make the position's more stable ,so how come not every one is doing it.
    thanks simon
     
  2. saddler

    saddler Phil Gee

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    Main Shoot rules attached
     

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  3. sportsmatch

    sportsmatch Member

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  4. Recoiling Rob

    Recoiling Rob Member

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    Hi Simon,
    No and no

    Hand only, on stock or hamster, but not the wrist

    Sit on your heel with the foot upright, bean bag is just to stop your knee getting dirty not to support your bum :)

    Neil will confirm, there are rules you know :)

    Grubber
     
  5. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Only the hand can support the rifle, and the hand itself must be unsupported.

    The bean bag is illegal, it's there to support the rear foot/ankle or to protect the knee.

    You won't find watertight wording for every eventuality...
     
  6. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    No, but there were photos that showed what is allowed and not?

    Same as there are often photos (on here) that show what is not allowed lol!

    Why the original q si?
     
  7. saddler

    saddler Phil Gee

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    Gary,
    For info, those rules are out of date now.
    Rule 6 (hitzone sizes) and Rule 10 ii (muzzle beyond the firing line) have changed.
    Phil
     
  8. Ratinator

    Ratinator Well-Known Member

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    rule changes


    Looking at the pics from the weekend!!
    I feel that the disaplin rule's should be fool proof.
    I have heard that it is proposed to do away with the bag for kneeler's.
    I think it would be better if the bag was allowed to keep the knee clean only.
    As for stander's don't think it's easy to gain an advantage,without being to obvious.
    I would not want to offend anyone by pointing a finger and shouting cheat,but it brasses me of when people bend the rule's.
    I try to stick to the rule's and think it is only fair that fellow competitor's do the same.
    Trouble is everyone read's thing's differently and make their own mind's up as how to interpret the rule's.
    I for one would like to see a marshall on each of the disaplin lanes and enforce the rules,instead of chatting to fellow shooter's and waiting for a whistle.
    What i have seen is obvious and not by novice shooter's,if there are rules then we should all understand there meaning.
    In other words make them fool proof so if someone is getting it wrong it's obvious.
     
  9. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    I cant see anything in the harriers photos that would give cause for concern?.


    Its up to us all in my opinion to enforce rules.
    Eg
    if i see someone whos barrel is not over the line, i now ask them to move forward.
    not that i think thats a major rule break, but rules is rules.
     
  10. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    lol. like wafta bfta grades!
     
  11. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    I think consideration for a kneeling roll, like what the 3P shooters use when kneeling, is worth bringing in, even though it's another bit of kit. Not gaining anything more than a properly used beanbag.
    There are those who genuienly use the bag to support the ankle which is allowed, and for those with ankle joint problems, an absolute necessity.
    The problem is that the bag is all to easy to sit on, and a big one gives extra support:eek:
     
  12. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    I will look out for this at Castle. people sitting on the bag?

    I tried the bag (mine is big) under the ankle and did found it gave more support, but its in the rules so no problem with that.
    however, i want the bag to keep my knee clean, so thats where my bag goes.
     
  13. Ratinator

    Ratinator Well-Known Member

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    clear rules

    If the bag goes then it goes,but do not think carrying to much kit arround at nelson this year would have been much fun.
    At the end of the day all sport's have rules and most sports have ref's to make sure the rule's are followed.
    My choosen sport of field target seem's very gentlemanly and as a result of this people take advantage of good nature.
    If on lane 1 of a GP you turned arround to your shooting partner and told him you were going to give him two misses cause in your opinion he cheated,I'm sure your 2 minute's for two target's would get very short after that.
    If the rule's were very simple to understand then there would be no excuse.
    Even make a point of a demontration in the briefing,.
    I do feel that the marshall's should be on the lane's and make sure the rule's are stuck to.
    Who want's to come second to people not doing thing's as they should be done.
    My goal is to get to AA standard but i still like to look at who i beat on the way,and if i come second to a person that is bending the rules well that's a bitter pill to swollow.
    We seem to be triing to make the coarses harder,why not make sure people are doing it properly in the first place?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  14. TeamZ

    TeamZ Member

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    I think before this goes on and on, it's reasonable to highlight the shooter/s or their position so it's quite clear what you are unhappy about.

    I have been in this game for a decent number of years and I cannot think of a sport that has better, fairer and more sporting people. I am pretty sure none of the shooters would take offence or get upset if a comment was made sensibly and with due reason, it seems the best way to enforce rules is to point them out (preferably at the time).

    Again, knowing the people I shoot alongside for many years I think it's fair to say they are not interested in cheating in the slightest. From the pictures from Harriers, I am not sure which is causing concern - I presume its the kneelers you are referring to.

    From the top we have

    Chris (me)
    Not sure what is wrong with that. I can say I was not sat on the cushion, it was rolled under my ankle. However it is a large bag so it may look as though it is supporting my leg more. Happy to take any criticism without spitting my dummy out.

    Carl
    Classic position. From the angle of the photo the hamster does look close to the arm but carl is too old in the tooth to be bothered to get an extra illegal point for a target, he is a better man than that.

    Neale
    Big cushion for sure, but again not a man to break the rules in any situation on purpose.

    Mitch
    Nothing wrong in my opinion with his position at all. All clear of the arm and the wrist is very clear of the knee.

    Tony
    Again, text book position I'd say. Wrist clearly high off the knee.

    Ced
    As per Tony really, again bag rolled under the ankle, wrist not supported at all.

    I trust none of the above will mind my comments, but it's difficult to correct a fault, genuine mistake or concern if it's not clear what needs correcting.

    Many thanks

    Chris
     
  15. Ratinator

    Ratinator Well-Known Member

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    photo

    Again, knowing the people I shoot alongside for many years I think it's fair to say they are not interested in cheating in the slightest. From the pictures from Harriers, I am not sure which is causing concern - I presume its the kneelers you are referring to.

    Chris
    I have been careful not to use the word cheat,i have meirly pointed out that people take advantage.
    I have used the weekend pics to bring up the rule subject not point the finger.
    Pictures tell lies,different angles different veiws.
    I have looked at lots of pics from years ago to try and work out what are the tricks to good disaplin shooting.
    There are people not doing things properly and it could be down to how they read the rule's ,not cheating just misguided.
    I think the rules could be made a lot clearer.
     
  16. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    the next step is to tell us how you think that should be done.

    Its your bfta as much as the next shooter.
     
  17. TeamZ

    TeamZ Member

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    Hi mate,

    OK, fair enough, but in order to make the rules clear, examples of what could be judged as bending the rules need to be highlighted.

    i was only saying that the most straightforward way to do this is to highlight a position (not neccessarily a shooter).

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  18. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    All those that have been to a BFTA meeting will know about the kneeling rules, and the chrono...

    So i suggest punting it to your club rep, to punt to your region rep, so it can be raised up the appropriate channels... or we hold an open egm to just discuss the kneeling and chrono, and no-one is allowed to leave the room till it's done... food and water to be dropped in after 48 hours... but those who don't attend are never allowed to mention the words again. :D
     
  19. alan-aitch

    alan-aitch I'll practice tomorrow...............

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    Can we still mention watches? :D :D :p
     
  20. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    chinease whispers springs to mind!
     

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