Disabled positions

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by DEBS, May 18, 2012.

  1. DEBS

    DEBS Member

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    At present I adopt the disabled kneeling position as offered to me within the current BFTA rules. My hip joint severly handicaps me to obtain the desired legal kneeling position. On reflection and viewing current video evidence on this site I feel that I am gaining too much of an advantage over other competitors in my grade.
    Therefore, in future I am going to take all kneeling shots in the standing position as I feel this would even the playing field up. Hopefully other disabled shooters take my lead and adopt this stance on the disabled rules. I would further hope that the BFTA come to a fair and conclusive decision on this matter as soon as possible.

    Debbie Clarke,
    bfta, 42453
     
  2. AIRFIX GILLY

    AIRFIX GILLY WFTA World Champion 2012

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    Well done

    Very proud of you takin this view. Your a good apprentice.
     
  3. TOOL

    TOOL Independent FT Pumper

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    Well said Deb's and good for you.

    Scott Robinson 41950
     
  4. paul4be

    paul4be Why do I bother????????

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    Debbie, I think you do yourself proud taking the above view, well done you :):)
     
  5. DaveRobinson

    DaveRobinson NEFTA Chairman

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    Well done debs thats what i call sportsmanship
     
  6. maddog

    maddog Active Member

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    well done debs best of look to you. dave
     
  7. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    or sportswoman ship.

    considering you got Gilly helping you, you have enough on your plate as it is but I think Debs its what most are doing?well done Girly.

    i know Tosh (B grade) took all disaplines standing at Gp 2 rather than take the alternative kneeling approach.
     
  8. shinything

    shinything New Member

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    I feel i must just give my view on this as my dad is a disabled shooter he does not shoot FT or HFT as it would be impossible for him to do so would cause him way to much pain he cant even hold his gun for very long, but he does shoot against able people in the 20 yard indoor comp at our club on the isle of wight he shoots from a chair hes not very competitive and does this mainly for the soclie side of it.

    I feel we must not forget that we can can include Any one who is able to get round a course in our sport, but must say after seeing the video i can see why people are taking a dim view of these positions for disabled shooters. as we all spend alot of time any money on what we do and if its not fair playing field why are we doing it?

    I think that if you are disabled and there are many different reasons why you can be classed as that, but feel you can walk around a whole FT course and compete with every one else if on standers and kneelers you were given an extra minute and you could call a marshal or your partner to hold your gun in between focus and shooting to give a relief period to help with any discomfort you might have?

    this is just my view and an idea for other people to think about but i dont think we should be giving out bad messages to disabled shooters who feel they have enough mobility yo walk around the course, but i also have the view of lets make this as fair as possible it does not make sense to me that a disabled shooter gains an advantage

    DEBS your view on this needs to be commended and my hat goes of to you.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2012
  9. TREV RYN

    TREV RYN https://www.neftaonline.org/

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    i got to take me cap off to ya flower.;)
     
  10. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    and that is the problem. the alternative positions are far steadier than the kneeling postion (for some,) but certainly the vast majority of shooters the Standers are where we sway and wobble.

    no one wants to see "disabled" however that is classed shooters excluded, but its the advantage gained via the 2008 /09 positions thats the problem.

    why has it taken so long to surface, because only recently has a shooter been that good a shot on sitters that the make or break dispalines for most AA class shooters have been erroded and the advantgae gained in what essentially a sitting disapline.
     
  11. ellis d

    ellis d Active Member

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    Well done debs, for sportswomenship, :) oh and for putting up wiv the little fella :D
     
  12. Willbe

    Willbe I Like BIG Hats!

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    Firstly fair play to you Debs, you have decided on a course of action for all the right reasons and that is to be commended.

    However.....

    My personal veiw here isn't that the rule is actually the issue but the mis-application of that rule by undeserving cases to gain an unfair advantage. Not only does this cheat other shooters by unfairly gaining an advantage but also cheats the deserving cases where these positions mean they are able to shoot the course. I'm no expert and pity on whoever ends up having to sort out the mess but eventually someone somewhere will have to take the bull by the horns, be it by altering the alternative positions or by making a judgement on who the disabled dispensation applies to.
     
  13. chrispro97

    chrispro97 New Member

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    far play to u debs,but their is still a problem wot about disabled standers hav we all forgot about this seems kneelers got picked on and not the standers
     
  14. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    I guess if Debs had been taking standers in the sitting position she would elect to go for two x 0's?

    Thats what most seem to say they would do.
     
  15. Ratinator

    Ratinator 77.74

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    debs solution

    Good on ya deb
    Chris this is not about standers,this is about debs choice to take kneelers standing.
    I'm not sure but do you need the cheif marshall's concent to take kneeler's standing?
    atb simon
     
  16. chrispro97

    chrispro97 New Member

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    i no that simon,fair play to debs for doing this,ive just seen the video on ere and well mmmm,i think standers now need sorting,it woz all about kneelers in our region,now looks like standers are going down the same route
     
  17. PeteM

    PeteM New Member

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    The situation is not very clear. For certain some people appear to gain an advantage from the disabled positions, whereas others definitely do not gain an advantage from the disabled positions.

    What needs to be cleared up at this moment is what is the actual disability of the competitor (in the video that has caused this ruckus) & why he needs to use the alternative positions, before he is labeled a cheat.

    For myself I choose not to use the alternative positions, I could easily get a medical certificate stating my disability, as I broke my neck & back in six place two & a bit years ago. I also suffer from a disease called Fibromyalgia which affects the muscles, ligaments & tendons & the central nervous system. I am in considerable pain all through a competition whether standing, kneeling or freestyle.

    I choose not to claim a disability, as for myself I wish to succeed in this sport with the same set of rules that the majority of competitors use. There would be no sense of achievement for me otherwise, hence it would be pointless to compete.

    Peter
     
  18. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    To stay withing the rules you may still need to get that standing position approved by the CM as I believe kneelers are still in rules as being taken kneeling only. Obviously though standing would give you no advantage, so I can't see why standing due to your hip can't be an alternative position... there's no preset alternative position as many think, there are only examples of positions which could be deemed to give no advantage. I would think whether they could be an alternative or not depends on your ability.
     
  19. DaveRobinson

    DaveRobinson NEFTA Chairman

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    There seems to be a lot of talk of individual circumstance...i can see the view points to allow inclusion ive put a lot of thought into what im about to say
    The Rules cannot be flexible enough to allow inclusion of every individuals circumstances in our sport it is just common sense fact.
    An Example
    The rules of the road if a Frenchman came over here and drove on the wrong side of the road to then turn around and say well you should allow me to do it i have a bad right arm and its easier for me to drive on this side. Sadly Its not gonna work in practice
     
  20. paul4be

    paul4be Why do I bother????????

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    If a shooter is unable to shoot in the required positions for a specific class (i.e. standing, and kneeling) then they should not shoot in that class. That is not discrimination, but common sense and the way of pretty much all sporting rules.
    If you are unable to shoot the required positions, then you shoot in an alternative class in which you are able to shoot the allowed positions.

    That is not discrimination or any other PC term anyone chooses to argue. It still allows ANYONE to take part in the comps. It does offer the option of a level playing field across classes.

    It makes no difference whether the adapted positions offer advantage or not in reality. If you can't shoot in the required positions for a class, then you should not shoot in that class - simples

    It should not be left down to specific shoot marshals to sort at a shoot either. Rules as above would prevent that stone dead.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012

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