Competition Markets Authority

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by JasonGoldsmith66, May 18, 2015.

  1. JasonGoldsmith66

    JasonGoldsmith66 Banned

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    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/competition-and-markets-authority

    Has anyone got any knowledge about some UK pro consumers / group, instigating a dossier with the CMA ?

    >> Subject: Harmonized Pricing and Monopoly/ Cartel/ Pricing/ collusion / price gouging in UK - versus Europe & communicating erroneous , malicious falsehoods by UK trade Members to shops in Europe

    Just wondering out loud ...

    :lev

    Ref:
    http://************.com/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=1240 &
    http://************.com/viewtopic.php?f=162&t=1494

    PPS: Remember years ago about UK "grey" imports of vehicles from Europe and UK dealerships refusing to service or sell spare parts ? guess who won ?
     
  2. AlsoFishes

    AlsoFishes New Member

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    As it happens, there is an EU body that deals with this kind of thing. I used them once to send a letter to a Supermarket manager out here who refused to sell me a powertool without a giving him my portugese taxpayer number. He lost the argument and I got a BIG discount off my purchase for educating him.

    There is also this in GB:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/competition-and-markets-authority
     
  3. AlsoFishes

    AlsoFishes New Member

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    Here is the EU body that deals with cartels:
    http://ec.europa.eu/competition/cartels/overview/index_en.html

    Apparently if, say, a shop was told not to stock something that was cheaper than what the others charge and thereby became a member of a Cartel, they fess up to it and provide info on the criminals, they get let off the hefty fine, right?

    EDIT: Do read the link, it briefly explains what cartels are. Ganging up to prevent imports is punishable.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2015
  4. oldtanky7642

    oldtanky7642 Member

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    You can see how much of a touchy subject this is , Mat on another thread is the sole importer of the TB range.
    as soon as some one said how much cheaper they were in the EU , Mat was straight on that thread defending his UK prices , this isn't knocking Mat , we would all do the same in his position .
    But it does go to show how touchy the AGT is in the UK with people shopping in the EU.
    The Semi Automatic was never an issue , Semi Auto was blown out of all proportion and used to highlight the fantastic deals people are able to get in the EU, and the loss of sales by the AGT in the UK.
    AGT and AMTA by forcing the issue , have made people look out of curiosity at EU gun shops , and boy did they all get a surprise on the prices our EU shooting buddies are getting, they have then gone on to tell there mates , and the ball started rolling.
    Not only sales of Semi Automatic Air Rifles is under scrutiny but Semi Automatic Air Pistols , as the law as it stands does NOT differentiate between the two, my own Fire Arms officer has told me , if i get nicked for one I will get nicked for the other .
    It is the GTA and AMTA that brought this about and blown a hole in there own feet, made themselves look like complete idiots, now no one trusts them as far as they can throw them.
    Now , more and more people are doing there shopping in the EU , I say good luck to them.
     
  5. NeilM

    NeilM Well-Known Member

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    I suspect this whole thing has been kicked off by one importer (no names, no libel), the GTA have then kicked off in order to 'address the situation once and for all', and both are now going to get bitten in the behind.

    Plus, as you say tanky, a lot more people are now looking to Europe to buy, especially competition and specialist air guns.
     
  6. AlsoFishes

    AlsoFishes New Member

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    Yes, I would go for the EU one as well as the GB one though.
     
  7. oldtanky7642

    oldtanky7642 Member

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    Like a few others .
    I got my letters of to CMA and EU trade commission.
     
  8. what barn door

    what barn door Now them tin chickens are going to get it....

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    Maybe there is an opening for someone willing to take orders with a non returnable deposit er I mean a goodwill gesture, pop across the water, buy x, y, z rifles, bring them back and then sell them as second hand, after all they might not have been used but they have been owned.

    That would cause some traders to look again at where the power lies.

    WBD
     
  9. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    You'd need to be rfd. And i suspect that the time it would take and the costs involved would make those items more expensive.
    Why not just buy them from abroad delivered to your door if they are for sale?
     
  10. what barn door

    what barn door Now them tin chickens are going to get it....

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    Yeah good point Rob, I just thought there was a problem with eu suppliers not wishing to post to the uk!

    WBD
     
  11. JasonGoldsmith66

    JasonGoldsmith66 Banned

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    They are entitled to post to UK. Per EEC Free Trade Agreement.

    Its another kettle of fish, if the Euro shop policy has changed because XYZ brand, has "co-erced" "leaned on" the Euro Retailer - by the mysterious "Black Forces" (Its public knowledge from an educational stand point - from BA, or MBA classes regarding free trade agreement , cartels, collusion, price fixing etc..in the "price channel" etc..and so known, we all see it in films, and TV series).

    Good idea ...but no need...your suggestion on van coming back to Uk loaded with goodies..and as RobF says..its implying you are "trading"....which raise HMRC eyebrows on issues if you are personnally paying the right taxes on yer profits ...

    What could be "dodgy" are the terms of "distribution" imposed on local country shop by: agents, manufacturer, and/or body, and or/ combo of all 3 ..sounds familiar ?

    ...which, BTW, are meaningless, on a EEC Free Trade Country wide basis and un-enforceable...unless they get HO involved under pretext- which is why someone there , better get on the ball, and wisen up pronto and come to same conclusion about "protectionisms" of one's turf & £ £ £ ......

    However, if said Euro shop owner has taped , email, or fax evidence, of collected UK citizens names from Euro shops by XYZ, all of this goes against multiple LAWS. :D - thats bloody marvellous ! (as said Euro shop owners are interviewed in presence of lawyers as they make their deposition as "witness")



    That's why the good old USA fines $$$ Millions on cartels...and people go to jail.

    Do the UK authorities have the teeth or appetite for a ...purge ? (call it an "enema purge" of said characters...) or the EEC Cartel Commission ? should EITHER be presented with evidence Its abundantly clear , it will be a wonderful sight to see Mizz KARMA do her job... :D and we, the public get "normal pricing" in line with Europe.

    :lev

    THIS , says it all >>> http://www.shooting-the-breeze.com/forums/showpost.php?p=200027&postcount=4
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  12. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    No because there's no law that says prices have to match. All that the law says is that if an item is legal to purchase in a country then another EU country that is allowed to sell cannot discriminate against selling to that other country. The customer is then free to make their choice.

    At the moment I haven't seen an example of a clearly legal within product being held back from the UK market despite free availability within the EU. Who has?
     
  13. AlsoFishes

    AlsoFishes New Member

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    There is another factor creating problems though:
    The courier firms. I don't know how traders post airguns but I have not been able to find one who will carry air rifles internationally from GB. The Post office theoretically export air pistols to the appropriate countries up to 2 Kg but not anything heavier. ParcelArse just returned an HW77 damaged and refused to even refund the 65 postage to Portugal.
    Quite amazing that they can magically deliver air rifles FROM Europe without any problems though, the %#@ts!

    As for EU airgun shops selling to GB customers. I am sure that GTA and AMTA and the like are all keen for UK laws to prohibit the selling of air-rifles/pistols unless face to face and registered by an RFD.
    Right now, British shops are apparently stopped (or charged extortionately) from exporting air-weapons to Europe by the carriers (and of course their own overpricing).
    The whole situation is one big Clusterfukc created by cadres of inept penpushers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2015
  14. mike

    mike Member

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    Just as an example of price difference, I have just ordered a Walther Aluminium air cylinder from Gremany. Price including delivery £147 (ordered Thursday being delivered Saturday) the Official UK Agent wanted £200 + p&p :eek::eek:
    now don't get me wrong, £150 is a lot of money for aluminium tube, a pressure gauge and a brass valve, but it gose to show just how much can be saved.
    I'm not criticising the Importer because I don't know what their overheads are and as I'm self employed I know what I need to make on each job to make a profit,.
    I've seen on here and other forums how people are happy to have a dig at RFD's because they are more expensive than a dealer in Europe, but that only seems to be with buying foreign made rifles. How many people buy BSA or Air Arms air rifles from Germany or Holland?
    Cutting out the middle man (importer) has to make it cheaper, just think who much more you could save if you went direct to the manufacturer.

    Just as a side note, back in 90's it was cheaper to buy a Triumph motorbike from a dealership in France and ride it home than get one direct from the factory here in England :confused:

    ATB
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2015
  15. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Same was true of land rovers form Holland. The EU legislation kicked in when car companies stopped giving the option of right hand drive abroad.

    I think distributors and shops need to understand that if they don't compete on price then they need to add value. But apart from the rifles themselves apart from a little additional cost and time there's barely any difference between returning parts to a UK dealer or an EU dealer. I feel sorry for those stuck the other side of a UK distributor that adds a margin that makes adding and profit at the point of sale even worse.
     

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