BORED with mini kills ?

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by holly, Jun 7, 2011.

  1. Willbe

    Willbe I Like BIG Hats!

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    How about thinking about this differently? Instead of having a distance hang up why not look at the sizes of kill a-la american style targets (down to 3/8"-9mm)?
     
  2. sportsmatch

    sportsmatch Member

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    Can we have 20ftlb also :rolleyes:

    Gary
     
  3. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    well said;)
     
  4. Willbe

    Willbe I Like BIG Hats!

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    Sadly think the pointy helmets may have an issue with that! :D
     
  5. Gcos

    Gcos Member

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    Holly, your rite it should have always have stayed at 40mm kill zones. FT has been allowed to bow down to other countries whims and fancies after all it is a British sport and we started it . How far are you all prepared to let it go. I have from a reliable source heard that the Mongolian's will be entering an 8 man team in 2013 on horses. They think they can do do shots from horseback. They are training in now ,with the very latest kit.

    Rob , re the above it would be nice to get home from the GPs on Monday,if all goes well not tuesday.
     
  6. Willbe

    Willbe I Like BIG Hats!

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    Personally like to see what other nations and shooters make of the FT game. Saying "it is ours and should stay in what we alone want it to be" is a recipe for stagnation and ultimately decline, where other countrys adopting aspects of the sport to their local situations, but staying true to the core values, is the way that this sport will grow and develop, where we all look at it and maybe take the best bits that other people develop to make this sport even better!
     
  7. steg

    steg Member

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    Holly I agree with you on a 40 shot course 'with bloody hard targets' and why not a TESTING side shoot of say 25 or 30 mini kills for those that enjoy shooting these.There would be enough time to do it (and the sillie's') as the main course time would be shorter.Or has this been tried in the past?
     
  8. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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  9. saddler

    saddler Member

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    and of course this would mean only 120 people could shoot.
    We get more than 150 now.
     
  10. Willbe

    Willbe I Like BIG Hats!

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  11. rich

    rich Active Member

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    Exactly the point. Smaller kills test a different part of the skills base. You don't need a £1000 scope to rangefind a 30 yarder accurately but if it's an inch kill and the wind is up you need more nerve and more skill and less luck.

    Course design is about balance. I could put out a league course of 40 targets with four long standers (and here in SWEFTA we are allowed all of them at 45 yards with full size kills) and the rest of the targets at 25 yards, on the level, full size kill, no inchers, no minis. Most competitors are going to get all the 25 yarders, and someone might (not me though :mad:) get all the standers for a clearance. But is that an attractive and enjoyable course, even though the worst shot walks off with 36 ex 40?
     
  12. Artfull-Bodger

    Artfull-Bodger Member

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    I'm not quite following what constitutes a "hard" target, unless we are talking 45-55yd standers and kneelers?
    if you shoot a modern FT rifle sitting indoor with no wind you will hit a 55yd target every time unless you cock the shot up, so as far as I can see the only thing that makes a target "hard" is wind?

    so as i'm no expert and a relative newbie in the sport I would think the mini kills add a little variety to constant 50yd plus shots?

    lets be honest its hard to miss a 30yd full size (although it does happen:p)
     
  13. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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  14. AIRFIX GILLY

    AIRFIX GILLY WFTA World Champion 2012

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    Hard targets?

    Personally I just enjoy shooting tin chickens. :shot: Dont matter if their small kills or big kills, always try to knock it down, especially if I`ve seen Marc Fisher hit it before its my turn to waste some lead on it. Oh yea, and the really close one`s are good too because a certain `Oga` cant `remember` to dial back down and subsequently misses the next tin chicken which helps my financial plight in the long run.:D:)
     
  15. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    I been Away

    As quickly as you have become boared with the mini kills, i would find a course of full kills equally as boing.
    The trouble is with lowering the number of targets is that scores will be tighter than they are now? Quite often think that 50 is alot in a Gp but i dont think lowering to 40 will make it better at NATIONAL level?
    Stick to two sessions unless numbers grow so that more are needed. But in the current finanical crisis i dont see it for at least 2 +years?


    Agree that a 25ml kill in no wind is little challenge at 35 yards, but then a 55y full is not either.
    I think if you took the above in wind and gave 10 shots at each, more would miss the 25ml in the wind than the full.
    Mini kills need more skill in wind to hit for me as you dont have such a harder margin of error, ie 40 ml as apposed to 25.
    Think the 15 ml are right out to 25 yards but in wind are something of a lottery and not a skill shot once past 20 yards?
    Push full past 55y and again in woind it will become lottery shooting not skill.
    Cherry toms are about 25 ml? If you hit them no probs at 90 yards than I cant see any Gp being a proiblem for you? Do you shoot GP?

    There was no wind that day:eek:

    I would like to see 25 ml kneelers out to 30 yards (as a start)

    A fair point but its been close.
    I think gp 1 and 2 were reasonably tough. Wind (Am session) meant you had to shoot well to score well but plenty did? Gp 3 was a bit easier i thaught as the wind was fairly weak in comparrison to 1 & 2. But then its at times inmpossable to set a course for the wind.

    I am not sure about gp being for everyone? Thats not was I was told upon returning in 2006 and to be honest I am glad a Gp is "hard" as it has for me meant trying to raise my game. Its taking a few years but at last I have (nerarly) made AA grade. Asa C - A grade shooter my poor scores were not down to hard courses but my poor shooting. Competing against the best is the best way to improve?
    I know some regions dont have a summer league and use the gp as their summer shoots, but thats alot of travelling and thus not for everyone?

    Inch kill for me could do with going out to 40 yards. Perhaps only 25 % of the total number howerver to start with? As said, would also like to see at least two of the current 6 kneelers being 25 ml out to 30yards.
    Also dont like the must have 8 x 25 ml kill rule. Would have voted for minimum 4, max 8. Some variety then for the various course builders.
    While I am at it would like to see 6 stander so a balnce of numbers with kneelers.


    We use a 10 ml kill and an 8 ml one on our vermin side shoot. Quite alot of good ( AA) shooters miss them:eek:. I thnk 15ml is the smallest we need.

    Heard Holly has baught an old Nag, bit like him really:eek:
    I guess you have a point about we should be doing things here as We (uk) shooters want it done.
    But you have the ability to put these thaughts to your regional reps and bring to Bfta meetings. Hopefully the system works and the majority of Gp shooters get courses they want to shoot? Be it a Uk style or perhaps more continental one?

    I put out a mainly full size kill course at Tondu in April and a vermin side shoot with the 15 ml & 25 kills plus partially obscured full kills.
    Think it works well at regional level but again to me a full kill Gp course would be boaring and I dont think i would travel to shoot that if i can shoot it at my home ground.

     
  16. berty177

    berty177 Judge Diva

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    Mini kills etc

    Lads/Ladies,

    I will be the first to say that I put the request forward for 15mm kills etc. I didnt ask for the must have 8 25mm kills though.

    I asked for them to be added as alot of courses of full kills became too stupid distance wise and after travelling for hours just to shoot loads of 50+ yard 40mm kills it gets tedious and boring......

    I can see peoples point of having 10 mini kills in the GP courses, sadly they are in for this year, as we have mentioned before bring your points up to your regional rep and then we can discuss them and get things changed. Im not a great fan of the combined distance rule for disciplines, we could put out some superb shots which would go over the new rule.

    I do like the idea of maybe 3 lanes of standers and 3 kneelers etc, that puts a new angle on the courses. Alot of people on here have opinions as we all do, sad thing is no one likes to step upto the plate and make their points known when it is needed.

    I have put alot forward to try and change the sport for a bit of an improvement, anyone can get involved and help out......

    Berty
     
  17. saltydog

    saltydog I smell something fishy

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    Fair comment berty its about balance at the end of the day, shoot the courses make your evaluation next years courses will be tweeked and fine tuned, won't always get it right price of being humans but we try and are sport evolves.
     
  18. Willbe

    Willbe I Like BIG Hats!

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    T'is the sensible way...
     
  19. Jon

    Jon Member

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    Because theres no wind at short range worth mentioning!
    Its just bench rest FT, point and aim.
     
  20. dutoitk

    dutoitk Member

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    Hi All

    I have been following this thread with interest, and I would like to share some of our limited experiences with you guys.
    The average League course here in SA will have about half the targets as mini kills.
    We have a bit of wind down here in Cape Town in the summer, and reduced/mini kills has a marked effect on the results when the wind picks up. Our recent WP champs had 25 to 35 km/h winds.
    Average winning scores without much wind will in the high 40's, with the scores very bunched up near the top. When our South Easter blows, the scores will drop by at least 6 - 8 points and the scores will spread. The use of reducers in the wind has the effect of separating the pack from the top guys.

    Here are our rules to show how we make use of reduced kills.

    League Level: total number of such targets may not exceed 55% of the total number of targets for that course. (27 targets)
    20% of targets may be positional.
    National Championship: total number of such targets may not exceed 70% of the total number of targets for that course. (35 targets)
    30% of targets may be positional.

    Standards for the use of reducers (a one meter tolerance is allowed) .

    1) Apertures of not less than 30mm may be used on freestyle targets to a maximum distance of 40 meters.
    2) Apertures of not less than 20 mm may be used on freestyle targets to a maximum distance of 30 meters.
    3) Apertures of not less than 13 mm may be used on freestyle targets to a maximum distance of 20 meters
    4) Apertures of not less than 20mm may be used on positional targets to a maximum distance of 20 meters.
    5) Apertures of not less than 30mm may be used on positional targets to a maximum distance of 30 meters.
    6) The maximum distance for positional targets is 40 meters.




    We really like our reduced kills.:D
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011

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