Barrel Clamp

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by Jamara, Aug 7, 2018.

  1. Jamara

    Jamara New Member

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    With other recent threads talking about harmonics and vibrance why do manufacturers with all of their research and development produce rifles with barrel bands and clamps, surely they test and shoot these rifles over distance and check for POI movement before bringing them to market .We then have most of the top shooters doing everything they can to float their barrels (and i'm sure the manufacturers are aware of this) now we are talking about harmonics and how this affects POI, isn't it less affected with a clamp ? I do not buy into the argument that it's a factory product and needs to have money spent on it to be usable, particularly when spending 2K .
     
  2. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    It's almost as though they don't sufficiently test their rifles before bringing them to market isn't it?
    But that would be impossible, wouldn't it?
     
  3. TenMetrePeter

    TenMetrePeter Paper punching member

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    in my opinion
    1. the risk of damaging the breech block if the rifle is dropped is too much to take to market and
    2. A 14mm barrel and weeny pellet is not going to vibrate much. Even if it did then a barrel band half way with an O ring would minimise the vibration at the crown by doubling the frequency, putting a stationary node half way along.
    Discuss.
     
  4. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    Steyr barrels are tuned at the A-clamp and accuracy tested indoors. There’s a nylon plug inside the hole that’s touching the barrel and kept in place with a grub screw. This is excellent if you always shoot indoors at a similar temp but outside environments change.

    They are a 10m designed rifle that off the shelf is as good as it gets for outdoor Field Target.
    To make a rifle purely designed and marketed for FT off the shelf would prove fruitless. Everyone is different with different styles, preferences and modifications are what are done to some rifles to suit individual requirements.
    Floating the barrel in a Steyr is something they told me they were not prepared to do so it’s a small matter we just have to do ourselves. The newer Challenge chassis is more of a challenge :)
    They also come with ample grease on the cocking lever, this usually ends up in the hammer so everything is decreased as an aftermarket modification. A rifle will never be sold with no grease on it.

    Hand made Ripley rifles specifically for FT use cone with half a bucket of thick grease on their hammers ;)
     
  5. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    No 2 is not a good idea, it will give rise to POI shift.
     
  6. Ceathreamhnan

    Ceathreamhnan WHFTA Champion 2013

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    A barrel band set up to not touch the actual barrel but be very close, limits damage in the event of a hard knock or drop.
     
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  7. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Steyr only sell indoor guns, that's why they only test them indoors
     
  8. tillygti6

    tillygti6 Tilly's gun stocks

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    to be fair, if I was mass producing an air rifle,I'd fit it with a band...

    at least I'll know it would most likely get to the customer in one piece .

    full well knowing it'l be removed almost immediately.
     
  9. Jamara

    Jamara New Member

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    The FTP900 was I believe designed primarily as an FT rifle and a fantastic stock it is but from what I have seen to get it up to scratch you need to remove the shroud, remove the muzzle brake, remove the clamp (losing the level and windicator and then fit a Rowan carbon shroud with air stripper and that's before you start thinking about the reg.
     
  10. dlloyduk

    dlloyduk Over Gunned Amateur.

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    Why call the Challenge HFT? Probably the same reason they fit an almost pointless hamster?
     
  11. TenMetrePeter

    TenMetrePeter Paper punching member

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    ...because? A loose o ring will still allow differential expansion of stock cylinder and barrel surely.
    But as has been said if you take a 10m rifle with foresight on the muzzle and convert it for a scope it will not be optimised. Modifying or removing the band is sensible, but don't expect the maker (as in OP question) to test it with a scope and twice the design energy.
     
  12. bootneckbob

    bootneckbob Active Member

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    Why's it pointless? You only need to rest it on your hand on the floor. It's perfectly okay but everyone likes to tinker!
     
  13. bootneckbob

    bootneckbob Active Member

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    Really? Steyr H5 fully floated.
     
  14. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Yes, really they only test them indoors
     
  15. bootneckbob

    bootneckbob Active Member

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    ...and what about the Steyr only sell indoor guns? H5 in FAC indoors? Also its floated so perhaps it's designed to be used outside, bit like the biathlon rifle; also a well known indoor sport!

    I'll add the ;-) in case you miss my friendly banter, but I think you will find I'm wrong and you're right!
     
  16. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Bob, I know it's completely escaped you, but I was being sarcastic, they also make an FT and HFT version.
     
  17. bootneckbob

    bootneckbob Active Member

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    I don't think so as they are both 10m indoor guns as you said before. FWIW I agree with you that they only sell indoor guns (LG110,100, HFT, FT etc etc) to the outdoor shooting FT and HFT fraternity. But having had the H5 and it being a fully floated different design it's not right to say they only make indoor guns. Shame the free floated H5 couldn't match my floated LG110 or Clamped Challenge for accuracy at 55yds. Then again I was never hunting with it at that range myself.
     
  18. bootneckbob

    bootneckbob Active Member

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    Back on the main topic though regarding barrel bands I'm of the opinion now that floated or not what you need to do is learn your kit and what it does. I hear people saying my scope shifts in the heat but everything changes in the heat, or cold for that matter. Just learn how to adapt to it because you dont shoot in a vacuum.
    Also I don't think there would be a company out there that could release a rifle that people wouldn't tinker with and add bits, strip bits and generally customise to thier own liking. Be nice if they did, could you imagine it if we all shot with the same rifle?
     
  19. Dale

    Dale Active Member

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    If we consider the rifles that are largely favoured by the FT fraternity, many of these are adaptations of 10 metre rifles.

    The set up with a barrel clamp / A frame is suited to the relatively stable indoor 10 metre environment and at that distance is not going to affect the performance of the rifle.

    That FT and HFT have adopted these designs for outdoor use does not appear to have prompted the manufacturers to fully consider how the rifle performs at up to 5 times its design distance and how varying environmental conditions affect the designs.

    Whilst the 10 metre derived rifles are nice and each brand has their loyal enthusiasts, I would say from a sideline view that none of them are ideally suited to an outdoor environment, with various nooks and crannies that can allow moisture and debris into the working parts.

    FT is pushing the rifles way outside of their design envelopes, so shortcomings are going to happen.
     
  20. Total SS

    Total SS Member

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    Us outdoor shooters are a difficult bunch to please. We want the accuracy of the 10m rifles in an outdoor environment.
    There are few, very few shooters who can out shoot their rifles straight out the box. Most of us try to improve the rifle instead of ourselves.

    Me included in this one. LOL
     
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