Are there any Ft scopes that are not affected by temperature??

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by WHIZZER, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. WHIZZER

    WHIZZER Member

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    Following on from robs thread are there any ft scopes that are not affected in their rangefinding ability due to the change in temperature.

    I have had a lot of scopes but in general the side focus ones seem to be more affected for some reason?

    Im using a 35x comp leup at the moment and that has moved, the 20-50 definitely moves, not experienced much movement with the new nikko yet though. My burris appears to be pretty stable as does the bushnell 4200 32x elite.

    Are there any out there that reliably rangefind throughout the year on the same settings??

    Regards

    Stuart
     
  2. NJR 100

    NJR 100 Because I`m AWESIME !!

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    My Mk 4 has only moved on extemely cold days, think fro memory it was about -5, a winter league shoot and every one was struggling.
    In the recent Shires 100 where Rob I think first experienced the March shifting due to heat, I had no problems with the mk 4 and that I have to say I was impressed with as it was easily the hottest days (30?) shooting i have used it over the last 3+ years.
     
  3. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Having now seen a bombproof you can't bend it shift on a scope that provides a bomb proof you can't bend it range, i'm going to see how my other scopes behave as well... as their in the cupboard it should be easy to do them in a session if the weather plays ball.

    It does make me wonder about the little shifts i used to see on the guns, and perhaps i was persuading myself to cheat the ranges previously... the march is about the only scope i've spent time with that wont allow you to lie at 55... if it's out it's blurred... you might wander a yard or perhaps a tad more but i reckon 2 yds out and it's obvious, where as the walther/tasco/debens i've had before have demanded a detail to confirm a range, else they could have been deemed in range.

    Like you, i suspect AO scopes are less prone to it... perhaps that's because your directly shifting the lens, rather than using a mechanism.

    I also wonder if 'lesser' scopes are shifting, but are more vague to start with, ie they shift in a band that's not noticable unless it's a really big shift. I know I keep harping on about her, but the march is needle sharp repeatable, so if it moves, you notice it... it hasn't really got any vagueness to it... i reckon it ranges at 70yds about as well as many do at 50.
     
  4. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    Yep, 30 in the shade was recorded not far away... so the scopes would probably have broken 40 in the sun. Didn't have strips on, do now ;).

    Perhaps there's a band where the scope is happy, and then it moves...?

    Early days yet, the S&B, from reports seems to gradually creep, but i think the march holds, then goes... more testing required by me to find out how mine behaves.
     
  5. WHIZZER

    WHIZZER Member

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    i have not noticed any shift on the burris 8-32x but it seems to be a trade off between optical quality and shifting, i was told that the DMP does not move but i dont feel its optically up there with the leups etc. Are we better loosing a little optical quality for the gain in repeatibility??
     
  6. WHIZZER

    WHIZZER Member

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    I have had mk4 scopes and they are probably my all time favourite due to build quality but i did notice shift with them. Still love them though!!!
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Member

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    My 20/50 has only ever shifted once and it was minus 10,it under ranged by 5 yards.The next week I put a thermal sock on it(not pretty):rolleyes:but it ranged spot on.I've shot with it at the euros for the past 2 years where the temp has got pretty warm and it has not moved.
     
  8. chrispro97

    chrispro97 New Member

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    my leup comp moves,used to have 2008new nikko which moved,my mate jev on ere uses bushnell 6500 which moves all with temp and poi stays the same,my mate uses a deben 8.5#34#52 moves soon as it hits 28 degrees on range finding :confused::confused:
     
  9. Bill Peat

    Bill Peat TALLENTLESS PUMPERTEER

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    my dmp does not seem to move in any conditions and have shot in all weather in last six months or my leupold ultra in this hot spell. but more concentration required parralaxing in very bright sunlight on yellow and white painted targets as glare off them missleads you. so is it temperature or parralax error in brightness that causes shift?
     
  10. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    on my scope it's definitely temperature...

    will see how clear it is on saturday, but might be able to test my black vs white walther/tasco custom shop and a deben.
     
  11. Pepone

    Pepone WFTF World Champion 2010

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    Not full tested in all conditions but i think the s&b is not too much sensitive to changes in temperatures but it is very sensitive when there are changes in the light conditions of the targets . I have experimented some changes with the S&B in the same range of temperatures with a different lights with targets at 55 yds. Yesterday with a target about 55 yds into the direct light of the sun, the s&B rangefind very well, repeat always in the same mark of the side wheel. One hour of shooting and the sun dissapear in the horizon and the target was not iluminated directly, the s&b tend to over range with 2 to 3mm in the sidewheel, all with the same temperature and conditions, the scope was always in the shadow with no change of temperatures.
     
  12. berty177

    berty177 Judge Diva

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    My Weaver t-36 does move but hardly anything. It moved about a yard in South Africa last year which I have to say I am happy with.

    It is the cheaper scope on the market these days and Im happy with mine. I have to marks on the scope, one for winter and one for summer. The difference is approximatley 2 yards. On extreme temps then (SA) it moved about another yard.

    Just learn your scope if there is a little movement you will find it and will be able to counteract it??



    Berty
     
  13. Artfull-Bodger

    Artfull-Bodger Member

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    The Falcon T50B I have been testing was originally set up during the winter in the -1 degree temps, when the temps increased I saw no change untill about 12 degC ambient when it started to over range (50 actual reading 52 etc), and re marked the wheel to suit, since then I have seen no shift but its only been out on one hot shoot since so I'm checking it every time the temp goes above 20 degC down our range!
    I cant see how a manufacturer can prevent material expansion so I would be very suprised if there was a scope that wasn't affected at all?
     
  14. Tyke

    Tyke Member

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    Is it the scope or the rifle action that is causing the problem?
    I had my Leupold comp on Air Arms rifles ie S400 and I had no shift then when I put it on my TX200 this last winter league I had a little until I slackened the the mounts to allow a little movement. I am not totally sure but I imagine the different materials used on the action, mounts and scope contract and relax at differing rates.
     
  15. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    on mine, it's the scope... the POI was the same, and the rangefinding was on a known distance.
     
  16. maestro

    maestro Member

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    I think every scope moves with the heat more or less. I've tested some Nikkos ans S&B-s between -5 and 35 degrees in the last years and found the following differences at the rangefinding of a 50 m target on 10 C temp difference:
    • Big Nikko (old with the black turrets) - 0.4 m
    • Big Nikko (new 2008 model) - 2.6 m
    • Schmidt&Bender (prototype, early & late production models, all the same) - 4.2 m
    The temp shifts are linear, predictable and repeatable - so no problem, just a bit inconvenience.

    Worth to mention that the old Nikko has an independent parallax and hight/elevation adjustment while the others has the three turrets on the same place. My opinion is that the inner erector tube causes the problem, it expands with the heat and that's why the parallax wheel has to be in another position to produce the same focus.
     
  17. Conor

    Conor Never been banned from sales Staff Member

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    Quite agree Maestro, my Mk1 Big nikko has only moved marginally in extremes, -5 to 28 degreesC, 30 cm either way. Under in cold over in heat, mirrage is more difficult to deal with that the heat it'self, I find i can be 60cm out sometimes in the mirrage on a bright target at 55yrds if I ain't careful.
    Conor
     
  18. greyskullnz

    greyskullnz Non member

    That is really useful information/observation.

    Thank you very much for posting that.

    GS
     
  19. Globalstar66

    Globalstar66 Member

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    As I live in South Africa, and we have varying heat and brightness, I have seen the following with all 3 my S&B scopes:

    - Temperature change does not affect the rangefinding
    - A change in sunlight/brightness definitely affects the rangefinding ability

    I could go and set up the sidewheel distances with a tape measure on one day in say overcast conditions, and would mark the sidewheel from 9 to 50 meters. The next day (same time, same temperature) but in bright sunlight, the tape measure at 50 meter would read 47 or even 45 meters on the sidewheel, and vice versa.

    When the sun shines very brightly, and then disappears behind the clouds, the ranges on the sidewheel (measured against a tape measure) would change, sometimes quite drastically...

    This really peeves me about the S&B FT scope...you have to try and learn the thing, and compensate accordingly. But, on a 2000 quid scope, it should not be like it is. I have sent S&B various e-mails, which they are all reading, but I have not gotten a single reply...which peeves me even more.

    If someone could shed any light on the S&B's "issues", I would be most grateful.

    Thanks

    Robbie
     
  20. Ripleysniper

    Ripleysniper Team Walther 2011

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    Temp Shift

    Just a quick question about Leupold comps if they were not black say maybe white would this reflect the sunlight/heat slightly better and cause less problem with temp shift???? This may count for all scopes as I have seen Robs nice white big nikko!so very tasteful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010

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