Anyone want a Semi-auto.

Discussion in 'Hunter (HFT) & Field Target (FT)' started by raygun, Jul 1, 2014.

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  1. raygun

    raygun Non member

  2. chrisc

    chrisc Lucky git

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    Hi Ray....i have had a few heated discussions with TD and Ian Harford about this in the past. The feeling that i got was that i didn't need to know:confused:...also that conversations were done behind closed doors for fear of rocking the boat.
     
  3. raygun

    raygun Non member

    Hi Chris,

    9.19 The Home Office view that low-powered self-loading rifled air
    guns are not subject to Section 5(1) of the Firearms Act 1968 should
    be confirmed at the first legislative opportunity. [Paragraph 11.26]


    The above is taken from the 9th Report from the Firearms Consultative Committee 2000. That's 14 years ago so they can't say it's new :D

    Perhaps anyone interested should just bypass AMTA and the GTA and import them directly. There's just too much of the "Tail wagging the dog" and it's about time the Customer, US, got involved rather than an industry protectionist organisation that only has self interest at heart.

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  4. RobF

    RobF Administrator Staff Member

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    I find the stances taken confusing. According to the BASC things like the hw97k, the tx200k etc are pistols and thus sect 5 yet are routinely sold every day. I've been told by one amta member that it's not something to be concerned about as it's not the laws intentional focus to see what everyone sees as rifles defined as pistols. And then on the other hand you have this matter...

    I'll keep shooting. A semi auto would be a nice toy for the racks and a lot of fun I'm sure.
     
  5. raygun

    raygun Non member

    Hi Rob,
    It's clear that AMTA want to cherry pick which bits of legislation they think it's O.K. to ignore but want to push other bits they think should be upheld.

    The Home Office, CPS and ACPO between them have decided that the restrictions imposed by Section 5 do not apply to sub 12FPE airguns. They will apply to airguns if those airguns are declared "Specially dangerous" ie. over 12FPE for a rifle and over 6FPE for a pistol.

    It's worth noting that it's "Short barreled weapons" that are banned. Given that airguns are excluded from Section 5 (not specially dangerous) if they go over power (12 for rifle, 6 for pistol) then they do become a Section 5 weapon. An Air Arms TXHC has a barrel shorter than the 30cm limit. Under 12, it's O.K. Over 12 it becomes Section 5.

    Shrouds are not mentioned anywhere in the Firearms Act and so cannot be counted towards barrel length.

    For years AMTA produced airguns that were Capable of being over the limit. They fitted AT in an attempt to cover themselves but put the customer in a position that he could not comply to the law.
    Not a single manufacturer has told any customer what "Safe from prosecution" action they should take if they find their rifle over power.

    AMTA have manufactured a number of rifles with shorter than the allowed 30cm barrel but failed to inform their customers that they will be Section 5 if over power (pistols over 6).

    We now have anther debacle of AMTA saying Semi-auto are illegal when the Home Office, CPS and ACPO say they don't have a problem. Perhaps some new AMTA advisors are required.

    Given that the 12FPE limit was Lobbied for by our manufacturers they don't appear to have a good track record.
    Perhaps it's time that airgunners told AMTA they don't want them representing us any more.:mad:

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  6. rich

    rich Active Member

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    That's the point, Ray, they don't represent us. They represent their members. Which is right and proper for them.

    It's when our individual interests and the interests of the sport in general don't coincide with their interests that it goes pear shaped.
     
  7. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Where does the law stand on those Steyr LP5 pistols?
    They're semi-auto with a rifled barrel aren't they?
     
  8. raygun

    raygun Non member

    Hi Brian,
    As long as they stay under the 6FPE limit they are allowed (according to the Home Office, the CPS and ACPO).
    If they venture above the 6FPE limit they become Section 5 prohibited weapons. That is the same for any pistol.

    AMTA are just being stupid in the extreme ignoring the advice of the above mentioned bodies. Perhaps it's got something to do with only the "Foreign" manufacturers make semi-auto airguns :D

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  9. raygun

    raygun Non member

    I have no objection to AMTA representing their members as long as people are aware that is all they do. They do not represent the shooter, or look after his interests. In fact recent actions say that they are quite happy to feed their customers to the wolves.
    A notable member of AMTA seem to take great delight in treating airgunners like something scraped off a shoe, with the belief that they are all of less than average intelligence.

    When you get a "Defender of airgunning" saying that the Definition of a "Rifled gun" being a rifle and not a pistol I'm pretty pleased I can defend myself.

    When you get an "Archant controlled" Board using undue influence to stifle debate on AT on other Boards you have to wonder just who's side people are on. I've made my mind up.

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  10. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    Until someone makes a semi-auto springer, I say they should be banned :D
     
  11. Knockedover

    Knockedover CSFTA Champ

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    So are you, one day, hoping to get a semi Ray?








    :D
     
  12. raygun

    raygun Non member

    I should be so lucky at my age :D

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  13. rich

    rich Active Member

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    It has to be a contradiction to believe that you act for the best interests of the shooting public as a whole and also represent a trade association.

    Of course the trade association wants a buoyant market and it would be foolish to think otherwise, but at the individual level the interests of the association will be paramount above the interests of a lowly shooter.

    I deal with a very similar issue almost every day in local government where an elected councillor is there to represent his or her ward and has to declare a register of interests so that the public can decide for themselves the veracity of the line the member takes. Sometimes a member is carried away on a tide of enthusiasm and rhetoric, and such niceties as declaring an interest get overlooked. But those interests are still there. :rolleyes:
     
  14. raygun

    raygun Non member

    Hi Rich,
    I think you are quite right.

    There is certainly a "conflict of interest" in one particular area and a less than honest approach. It's obvious there is a vested interest when your living and life style depends on it.
    It's a great pity that there seems to be some sort of "Fan club" that perpetuates the myth.

    ATB
    Ray.
     
  15. oldtanky7642

    oldtanky7642 Member

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    I got a Steyr a Hunting 5 semi Auto the beginning of October , sent door to door from Germany .
    Mainly for my permission , I didn't have it for long , the farmer had a go , and immediately gave me £200 more than I paid for it , he liked it that much he ordered another 2 for his farm hands , and I got myself another one.
    Have another 2 coming in mid November for a mate and me ( hope to get GC to do me a stock for this one ).
    Bit of advice , if you order one from EU , get he or she to enclose a letter , with there name ,address,contact phone number.
    The rifle serial number , and that it is UK legal , and finely that they have had proof of your age , passport & driving licence.
    Had no problems with customs or border agency .
    Only slight problem I had with the last one , was the British courier , phoned me to ask what was in the box , here I took advice from some one else , and told them it was a large kinky bit of marital aid gear to hang in a door frame.
    They hung up on me , it was delivered before 8 AM the following morning.
    I can tell you every box was opened when they got to the UK , the boxes that turned up for me also had a red label on them saying they had bean X-Rayed .
     
  16. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Active Member

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    Nice to find a forum where some sense is being spoken about the AMTA's underhand behaviour and potentially clashing agenda with that of the end user.

    I suspect this thread would have lasted all of 5 minutes on the other side before it was banished by the ministry of propaganda.. :rolleyes:

    It's great to see (or perhaps terrifying, depending on who you are) that the industry's traditional mouthpieces seem to be losing the manipulative grasp on the market they once enjoyed; as more people become connected through decent forums and fewer rely on marketing, magazines or the local margin-driven shop owner to guide their decisions.

    That said I think it would be naive to think that the AMTA will curtail their meddling any time soon.. personally for now I'll be avoiding anything corrupted by AT or the withering touch of the AMTA.


    Thanks for sharing your experience - it seems like a decent enough propoposition to import one. How do you find the accuracy? I have an LP50 pistol (same system) that's searingly accurate over 20yds (5 shots into 5p at 20yd with R10s; not shabby for a semi!) however I have my reservations about the effect on accuracy over longer ranges when firing directly from the mag.

    Do you mind me asking where you sourced yours please? I wonder how many potential sales Steyr UK have lost on imported Hunting 5 Autos.. :rolleyes:
     
  17. rich

    rich Active Member

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    This looks to me to be the ultimate rifle for one of my favourite disciplines, Lightweight Sport Rifle. Five shots into a card at 20 yards standing; if the position is right and the technique good, the first shot will be a 10; then rattle off four more shots in quick succession. Almost no body movement from shot to shot. Finally an air rifle that puts me on a level playing field with the semi-auto rimfires.

    I want one. I just have to convince myself I need one. :shot:
     
  18. john0neuk

    john0neuk Well-Known Member

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    Rich,

    I just bought the standard version Hunter 5 for the same discipline. Went the standard route as I do turning target as well as LSR so the semi auto function is not really required. The movement to cock the standard hunter 5 is minimal just extend the index finger of the right hand and click. The 5 shot mag also keeps me from getting in trouble with the range marshal's for fully loading my HW100 14 shot mag so I don't fire a blank if I forget in the heat of battle which way it turns!!

    I am really getting to like it!!
     
  19. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Active Member

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    I'd expect it to put you past the rimfires tbh; considering the Hunting 5's lack of recoil, probable better trigger and likely comparable lock / shot development time to a typical 10/22 type setup.

    Much cheaper and less hassle to run, too :D
     
  20. rich

    rich Active Member

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    John, you don't live that far from me; I might have to give you the opportunity to show it off sometime....;)

    As i shoot left handed I think the single shot would be a little more difficult than the semi auto as I'd need to break position to reach the cocking lever; unless of course I could invent a mechanism to allow the left hand to do the work.

    Re the rimfires, I think ultimately it also comes down to consistency of ammunition. My current average with my S410K and JSB 15.9 grains is 95.3. There are a couple of shooters in Devon with averages around 98 and that means I've still got a lot of improvement to find.
     
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