Any Daystate electronics gurus here?

Discussion in 'Daystate' started by SteveC200, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. SteveC200

    SteveC200 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    578
    Location:
    Colchester
    Club:
    Iceni Marksmen
    I have a project in mind for an Airwolf but need some info on the electronics and pressure sensor. For both MCT and MVT. Basically, whats the resolution of the sensor and related electronics? How much of a pressure drop in the cylinder occurs before the electronics compensate by altering the hammer strike?

    Is there anyone able to custom remap the PCB?

    Cheers.
     
  2. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2014
    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Can't answer the bulk of your question, however I think "custom re-mapping" the compensation feature would need a hardware change.. although I might be wrong as I'm no electronics wizard!

    Daystate supply their dealers with a handset to allow the rifles to be re-programmed, however the scope for adjustment is very limited as the system only allows for a linear compensation to be applied, yet the velocity behaviour with changing pressure is curvilinear so you'll never get a perfectly flat velocity output from the gun.

    Setup allows you to define the time duration for which the striker solenoid sees current (and hence how "hard" it hits the exhaust valve), but this can only be input by defining duration at user-input start and end pressures (say 230bar and 120bar) between which the change in linearly interpolated.

    What would be far, far superior is if the system could be mapped for individual pressure points (say every 2 or 5 bar) as this would allow far better correction of the native velocity behaviour, however I don't think this would prove "economically viable" to be setup at the factory as it would be very time consuming and DS already seem to struggle to get their guns out the door in a usable condition.

    As much as I dislike electronics in guns (due to a lack of understanding plus the usual complications of keeping them charged and reliability concerns in the damp) I think a fully-developed electronic striker setup could really bring massive benefits (just as the introduction of EFI on engines did in comparison to carbs), however the Daystate setup is under-developed and poorly implemented IMO so has limited scope for improvement without implementing fairly major hardware changes.
     
  3. SteveC200

    SteveC200 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2012
    Messages:
    578
    Location:
    Colchester
    Club:
    Iceni Marksmen
    I fully agree with you about their electronics being under developed and implemented. Theres so much they could do with it but haven't, they seem to be mainly interested in having a display but not allowing the end user to set the rifle up as they want. In fact they seem to be going backwards to some extent. The mk3/4 and early Airwolf CDT system had 16 power settings but no pressure sensor, the MVT was adjustable in single fps steps ( and 'regulated' depending on pressure sensor and chrono feed back), the MCT was 2 or 3 steps with only pressure sensor feedback as the chrono feedback was unreliable, all of which are only settable by the factory or dealer. Even on the CDT the gaps between steps is around 15fps so the majority of them are useless.

    What they should be doing is making the guns as adjustable as possible, so properly tuneable by the customer.

    What I'm hoping is that the software could be tuned to vary hammer strike relative to very small changes in cylinder pressure so that if a mechanical reg was fitted the electronics could cope with any pressure fluctuations due to reg errors or temperature change.
     
  4. Jesim1

    Jesim1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2016
    Messages:
    333
    Location:
    Wigan/St Helens
    Club:
    BOAC, BGC
    You may be able to do this with just a software tweak. I watched some of a video on you tube about it (MK4is) but gave up after a while as it was so repetitive, but basically the guy was altering a whole load of points to give the kind of flat power curve both of you have been mentioning so it was possible at different pressures, not just 230bar and 90bar as an example, he repeated the process several times to flatten any curve between these points.

    I don't have more details, and I'm not sure if it was a home made device he was using, but it may be worth having a google and troll through you tube for half an hour to see if you can find it and it does actually help out? It certainly didn't look like a finished unit you just plug in.

    There are also a couple of people who have started making replacement boards - again, I don't have the detail, they have just been mentioned on the DOC site, but if they are making the boards they may also be able to do or supply a custom remap just like a car?

    James
     
    SteveC200 likes this.
  5. cloverleaf

    cloverleaf Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2014
    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Absolutely.. while I agree about the adjustability, unfortunately of course with anti-tamper and all that crap manufacturers are now going out of their way to shut their customers out of the adjustment facilities and ensure that they have to pay an approved party with the right equipment to do it for them.

    To be honest I'd not worry too much about compensating for the limitations of a reg - if it's a decent one it should only fluctuate by a small amount over the whole charge and should show better repeatability over a smaller operating pressure range; certainly not enough to make any significant difference to the gun's velocity (and one that would probably be over-shadowed by ammunition variation). I suspect the output would have to be varying by 10+bar to influence velocity to any meaningful extent.

    I'd have thought a better implementation of fully-mappable tech would be to control the velocity below an artificially-high reg setpoint - allowing the gun to operate with greater efficiency (larger ports with higher pressures and shorter valve durations) while preventing the typical off-reg spike you'd otherwise get in this scenario :)


    Now you mention it I do recall someone (maybe in Europe somewhere) manufacturing retro-fit boards, so this might be worth looking into - not sure of their level of functionality though. Given the rep of the DOC I can't see any ads for aftermarket / competitive products lasting long on there!
     
  6. Spruit

    Spruit New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Ned
    I just looked at the board i have in my airwolf (10+ years old ) and it looks quite simple to me. A pic processor you should quite easy reprogram. Reading of the stored program will problably be disabled. As for the sensor, that is problable analog ( mine don't have one.. ). So the internal AD converter is the limitting factor.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice