anschutz 9015

Discussion in 'General Airgun Chat' started by blacklab, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    What you need to do is change your perspective because you are looking at this in the wrong way and it's causing you to come to the wrong conclusion.

    Your mistake is to think in terms of muzzle energy.

    Under WFTF rules rifles are checked over a chrono and a chrono measures velocity not energy (it calculates energy from the velocity)
    The limit for being disqualified is set as a velocity. (either metres per second or feet per second).

    So just stop and think about that for a moment and consider this - you've travelled 3,000 miles to shoot in a competition and if your rifle fails on 3 attempts to give a reading that's below the limit, you're disqualified and your journey was wasted. That's a lot of time and money you've just wasted right there.

    Now consider this... These measurements aren't carried out in a laboratory under controlled conditions with calibrated equipment and carefully weighed pellets. They're carried out in the middle of a field or forest with variable lighting conditions and variable pellet weights.

    Some batches of pellets (of the same brand of pellet) give a higher reading in my 9015 (and other rifles). I have one batch that gives a reading that is 3% higher in velocity than my normal pellet. ( 20fps faster at the muzzle on average for 8.44 grain JSB Exacts )

    Chrono's aren't perfect either - so lets be optimistic and say that the chrono and the conditions it's used in are 99% accurate! - I'm sure you'll agree 99% accurate is pretty damn good.

    Also consider that your shot to shot consistency for your rifle is say +/- 2m/s ( 7fps ) - a variation of just 2 metres per second is pretty good, but with only 3 shots, there's a reasonable chance that all 3 shots are on the +2 m/s side rather than the - 2 m/s side... so for safety it's not a bad idea to give yourself at least an extra 2 m/s below the competition limit so you're not having to go home early after being disqualified.

    So... adding all of that up -
    • 3% pellet batch variation
    • 1% chrono accuracy
    • 1% rifle variation ( 2 m/s as a percentage of the legal limit of 245m/s )
    That gives us a figure of 5% - so if you want to run your competition rifle right on the very limit of it possibly being disqualified from a competition - it would seem that running it at say 95% of the limit isn't a terrible idea at all.

    Now going back to the consideration that chrono's measure velocity and not energy. The legal limit is 802 fps with JSB Exacts ( 244.4 m/s ) and 95% of those figures would be 758 fps ( 231 m/s ).

    Guess what 231 m/s ( running your rig within 5% of an early bath ) is? = 14.6 Joules = 95% legal velocity limit
     
  2. Spoilt_scorecard

    Spoilt_scorecard All the gear and no idea.

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    ......and this is why I love this site.
    Gave me serious food for thought considering wanting to consistently run at 777fps......considering that 5% variation applies to police checks too.
     
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  3. what barn door

    what barn door Now them tin chickens are going to get it....

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    Can I ask why so many people are hung up about the police? Do any of you have personal experience of the police taking your gun and making it shoot over the legal limit? Do any of you personally know someone who was stitched up by the police? Lets be honest, if we all do our best to remanin legal in the activity we love and if we also explain the serious need for doing so, to new comers, we are mostly unlikely to ever meet a man in blue wanting to take our toys away. The police are over worked and under manned as it is, they are also generally aware of sports users and know that problems caused with airguns are 99% of the time down to some dick head who (a) has no idea what the legal requirements are, and (b) wouldn't give a damn even if they did know, these are the people that do stupid things and put us all in a rather bad light.

    So as long as you opperate your gun in a safe and sensible manner and make sure that it is within the legal limits, it is most unlikely that you will have a problem with law enforcment and thus no need to worry.

    Just my opinion of course.
     
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  4. what barn door

    what barn door Now them tin chickens are going to get it....

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    Quote from Brian (snipped),

    Some batches of pellets (of the same brand of pellet) give a higher reading in my 9015 (and other rifles). I have one batch that gives a reading that is 3% higher in velocity than my normal pellet. ( 20fps faster at the muzzle on average for 8.44 grain JSB Exacts )

    Chrono's aren't perfect either - so lets be optimistic and say that the chrono and the conditions it's used in are 99% accurate! - I'm sure you'll agree 99% accurate is pretty damn good.

    Also consider that your shot to shot consistency for your rifle is say +/- 2m/s ( 7fps ) - a variation of just 2 metres per second is pretty good, but with only 3 shots, there's a reasonable chance that all 3 shots are on the +2 m/s side rather than the - 2 m/s side... so for safety it's not a bad idea to give yourself at least an extra 2 m/s below the competition limit so you're not having to go home early after being disqualified.

    So... adding all of that up -
    • 3% pellet batch variation
    • 1% chrono accuracy
    • 1% rifle variation ( 2 m/s as a percentage of the legal limit of 245m/s )

    Hi Brian,

    Turns out you were right about scope paralax error etc as recently discussed, so can I ask about something you just stated that has me now pondering.
    Until very recently (last 4 weeks) I would agree with everything that I have pasted into this post. However I recently fitted a regulator into my EV2 replacing the one that was already in it.

    Now when I tested it for variation such as first shot, second shot five minutes later, third shot 15 minutes later etc, I recorded some incredible figures, dor instance 1.84 fps variation over ten shots, but from unweighed pellets, from the tin. I would expect that even the JSB's I am using would show a greater difference but each ten shot string showed virtually the same consistancy. I thought my Skan was maybe playing up so I got another gun out and that showed a much greater variation. I understand that the energy required to move an object will depend upon weight and in our case maybe co-ef of friction, but I am astounded to see such figures recorded. Any idea why I am seeing this?
     
  5. Spoilt_scorecard

    Spoilt_scorecard All the gear and no idea.

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    A sensible youtuber named 'cubleycat' had all of her air rifles taken off her by the police in response to a complaint by a neighbour. 'Cubleycat' was shooting legally on a permission. The police confiscated all of her guns and chronoed the lot. It took her ages to get them all back in brown paper bags. So yes it does happen.
    Having worked in the criminal justice system for 20 years I can also confirm it happens more frequently than you imagine, but because we are mostly law abiding people we do not mix in those circles....so you don't see it.
     
  6. what barn door

    what barn door Now them tin chickens are going to get it....

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    I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, and as you pointed out, the youtuber was reported by someone leaving the police with little option but take the gun(s) for testing. The biggest enemies of the honest sports air gun shooters are the criminal idiot and the press. The press, mainly because they usually write a load of old bollocks with little if any fact involved. The fact that the youtuber got her gun(s) back means that the police did not find something that wasn't there which seems to be the irrational fear written about elswhere in this thread.

    On the other subject, anyone got any idea as to why my gun is shooting unweighed pellets with such little variation in muzzel velocity? I can't fathom it out but hope the gun will shoot well when put to use in the next hft shoot that I can get to.
     
  7. TenMetrePeter

    TenMetrePeter Paper punching member

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    ...possibly because energy is proportional to pellet mass times velocity squared.
    So to get a 1% increase in velocity you need nearer 2% decrease in pellet mass. (if my maths is sound but its not a linear relationship). I doubt a tin of good pellets has that kind of variation in mass. But then I have never invested time in weighing individual pellets.
     
  8. what barn door

    what barn door Now them tin chickens are going to get it....

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    Sadly I did try it for a while (weighing pellets) the variation in weight can be surprising but I have found no difference in my scores since I stopped weighing and washing etc so I no longer bother with it. I am not knocking those that do, each to their own and all that.
     
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  9. Brian.Samson

    Brian.Samson Allowed in Sales Staff Member

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    1.84 fps variation over 10 shots is rare (I've never seen anything anywhere near to that personally) and it may even be beyond the accuracy claims for the Skan chrono so who knows? 10 shots isn't a big sample, so I guess it's possible that you've had a couple of inconsistencies that have worked to cancel each other out perhaps? Dunno?

    But it shouldn't detract from the point of my post which was that only a fool would not have a margin for error when setting their power level and given all the factors, I don't think 5% margin for error is an unreasonable amount.
     
  10. hmangphilly

    hmangphilly Not quite a full phil

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    Cor , your chrono goes down to 0.01 of a fps

    that's just over 3mm ..................how long does it take for a pellet do that ?


    Ian , could you describe your testing / shooting intervals for me please .

    and interested what pressure you have the reg at if you don't mind . all else standard ?
     
  11. what barn door

    what barn door Now them tin chickens are going to get it....

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    Hi,

    Have to agree with you Brian, never seen anything like that and would expect to have seen the usual 4 - 7 fps.

    Phil, testing was done using my usual batch of JSB 4.52, 8.4gn. Chrono is a standard Skan and yes it shows fps down to 0.01, I am not saying that it is actually that accurate but I sometimes run it in line with my local RFD's Skan, he has the much dearer one and we have a consistant difference of about 5 fps between the two.

    Testing was done indoors, gun charged to 200bar, couple of air shots with no deliberate pause. First shot recorded 788.85, gun left in cradle and shot again five minutes later 788.07, again almost immeidiately 788.48, shot again after ten minutes 787.88, again almost immiediately 787.48, next time laps 15 minutes 788.95, almost immiediately after that 788.82 and so on.

    This reg is a huma reg (honestly it is) I asked for it to be set to 100 bar and sure enough the setting showed 100 bar. I have no reg checker for that particular reg so I can't confirm that it is actually delivering 100 bar. I have done a few tweaks and mods to the gun, but nothing really serious. Prior to fitting the Huma reg, I had the standard AA reg, that could suddenly drop power for you mid shoot, so I fitted a lane reg, that worked pretty good until one day I shot too many shots and the gun dropped off the reg and dumped the reservoir. I cocked it re-filled it and then it shot very low (7 to 8 inches at 35 yards). Back at home I chrono'd it and it was showing about 6ft lbs. And so I fitted the Huma. To be fair I was setting it up and once happy I always do the delayed shot string a few times, 2 shots each time longest delay 30 minutes. I have never seen such consistancy even with weighed pellets and I just can't see it being right, but I can't wait to get the chance to shoot it and set up the zero etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  12. Hosseinafzal

    Hosseinafzal New Member

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    Does anyone have an idea to choose air stripper for anschutz 9015 HP ?
    Do you recommend rowanengineering air stripper for that ? If yes, which one?
    Thanks
     
  13. wiseguy

    wiseguy Active Member

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    As the barrel from the 9015 has a 18mm shroud this might be problematic.
    Outside barrel length is 50+ cm (depending on model) and actual barrel inside the shroud is 42cm so huge distance.
    The HP version (has a shorter shroud than Match verslons) does have a threaded nut inside the shroud end and Anschutz sell an adapter to 1/2” UNF for a silencer. You might use that to attach an air stripper but I doubt it will work properly as alignment is critical.
    Also the huge space between barrel crown and stripper might be a problem.
     
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  14. Hosseinafzal

    Hosseinafzal New Member

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    Yes, that’s right. But, i think mr harris use the air stripper in his jh brand rifles. Or it’s different pieces ?
     
  15. Ali.Haman

    Ali.Haman New Member

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    Have you ever shooted with your Annschutz 9015??? Or ......
     

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